speaker 1: 
speaker 2: this call may be recorded press one to accept what happened here I had the clean up my car in the driveway under what you asked me to do oh you got you got dirt on the driveway no my car was in the driveway of the house next door and he was worried that the people across the street would not that oh so you just have to move your car yes I have the trailers I had the trailer to and unhook it and plug it in and did you want to come fix the toilet okay you recognize the negative impact on my life and on the kids line when you were over here on Sunday and Monday fix some things for you and I watch the kids actually start and I read them a bedtime story so you recognize the positive effects sorry that I have left what the left and became upset what in that you got a set when I said that Kevin expend any more I mean when they got upset I left because I'm not trying to excite you with okay so that tells me that you don't see it
speaker 1: you
speaker 2: don't see that all that time you were sitting out in the back yard with me on Mother's Day while the kids were inside having their dinner was negative for their Development Center that until you set it so yes now I remember that we sat outside but and you don't recognize trying to pull you away from our kids I thought you wanted to talk to me that if I was talking to you yeah but I don't I don't want to continue to have these talks I don't want to continue the cycle I don't want to argue with you I don't want to be responsible for helping you see things about your relationship with Kevin or seafood or help you or I don't want to do that it's it's damaging took the kids it's damaging to me it's not going anywhere I'm I'm not able to convince you of anything if it was possible for me to convince you of anything else I would have done it a long time ago I just need you to help with a therapist but you're not obligated to and I'm not about to stop hearing like I've got a made it pretty clear yesterday that I don't need you to say that ever again you said it hundreds of times and most of those wasn't talking with any sense for us to get divorced without trying to work through our problems with service but I appreciate you saying that because you don't appreciate it if you could I just yes I have yes I have tried and I I'd like to stop I'd like you to stop saying that you said it 4 times already I'd like you to stop down okay for us to get divorced without trying to work through our problems with a therapist but and I know that I want you to stop accusing I know that I'd like you to stop accusing me of birth having done that and the reason is because the reason is not because you and I need to agree on that the reason is because I need to make a decision about whether you're someone who is supposed to have in the building I live in with my children long enough to fix the toilet I'm trying to check that I am safe to fix a toilet I didn't have to boil it on purpose and it doesn't matter for us to get divorced without trying to get therapy so. I have to stop I need to it doesn't matter if it's a fact then I need you to stop saying it over and over it's going to be your decision whether you can continue with support when I'm a single mom there's not a whole lot of single moms who have somebody have speed dial who can show up and fix whatever is broken in their home without them having to hire professional handyman $75 a month off to you that way you you're not you're not accomplishing anything you can't convince me of seeing things your way I can't convince you to see things the way that's well established wage and it's not my fault and I'm tired of being blamed for it and I'm tired of having these conversations with you and I just ordered one that called me and I'm I'm calling you don't need to call me and convince me that we should get divorced when that's not accurate because that because that's not something that's up to you it's it's basically no need to call me and convince me that you're getting an ethical divorce when we're not it's not going with the day is never coming I don't need you to lie to me about my life I I'm an intelligent person and I thought about what I was saying okay so I can tell you what my motives works but you can't tell me what my motives were I'm here to tell you that I if not call you to confirm that we need to get divorced why because that's not something you need to be convinced of why this is not something you're ever going to do it's something I am going to do and you're well aware that you don't have any control over that but I'm concerned about you saying that I had any control over it I'm saying you're calling trying to say that it's righteous for us to get divorced and that's not accurate I'm not I'm not calling you to convince you of that I'm calling back to paint a picture for you of how when you doing having no reason to be on this Earth no reason to be alive other than 2,000 try to make sure that we remained married you are not fulfilling God's purpose and creating you you are not serving him when you are not loving him doing anything good for Thursday you are not doing anything good for your children that's not a building home in and of itself to marry somebody else and have them raise my kids more than me that's not a noble goal and I okay I I just wanted to offer you an opportunity to be involved in our household in a positive way I live like I care about you and that would be good for you you've been really bad on a phone call I have not been back to you I don't think that if you had a journey to actually do things for me in the case that needs to do things that are harmful and destructive and chaotic life I'd like the part of you coming over on Mother's day where we talked about my surgery I like to party coming over on Mother's Day where where we talked about your visit to the playground I'd like to part on Monday where I got to drive to Publix and back I'd like to start on Monday when you read the kids a bedtime story there are good things that you have to contribute to my household and then there are also disruptive behaviors that you engage in and we don't have to continue the destructive behaviors they are not pleasing to God I don't have to continue to point out your faults I don't have to continue to blame for our marriage and I don't have to continue to tell you that it's your fault that people are scared to talk to you I don't have to keep doing that we can drop that off and everything just be functional. The 3rd. And we can be parents to live righteously and place the Lord and I'm offering wage an offering that to you and I think that there was a lot of Darkness for you when I didn't speak to you at all maybe November and December I think that that was very difficult for you I think that you didn't know what to do with that I think that you didn't see any point in being on this Earth and that wasn't even going back to you I think that that is not an emotionally good place for you but I'd like you to be able to connect the dots between the behaviors that you engage in while you're here that pushed me in the direction of thinking that I need to have a no-contact style of parenting with you after divorce I I think I think you asked me about Kevin and I told you my opinion about Kevin which is based on fact and the fact that you don't get it though is what will cause us to have a style of parenting after divorce that doesn't look like what you might feel you're entitled to that your sense of entitlement to being in our home in the way you want to be in our home is the based in reality and it's not based on what's best for your kids I wasn't upset about it that's our kids if we got therapy with a therapist and work through our issues I'd like you to I think I've made it clear that I'd like to just not saying that in a way that so I think it's clear that if not okay to divorce when you haven't made an effort to do that that clear thank you for sharing that opinion with me and I think that that tells me a lot about your character who do you choose to keep repeating that knowing that that is something that I specifically asked you not to repeat them I think that tells me that when I give you information about myself such as something that is going to be upsetting to me I think that you record that and you put that on replay because you know that repeating that if I'm just going to get a rise out of me and I think like how are you going to void when they when you get upset when you get me upset yeah but you're repeating something for for no reason but I just thought that that for no reason it's not because you think that I didn't hear you the first time you're positive I heard you all twenty times you know that I heard you because I specifically asked you said as long as not to say it ever again and you had a reason for speaking that truth that has nothing to do with relating information that you think I don't already have you have a reason for speaking that truth that is dead related to my request that you might say that anymore and that tells you so much about your integrity tells me so much about your character tells me so much about your motives because there's so much about how you feel about my feelings so we so much about what kind of behavior I can expect from you tells you so much about your ability to understand how your words actions and behaviors affect other people it tells me so much about how you think you have the right to accept other people because I'm sorry you needed to see that you made it clear that you would literally you said I will never stop saying that over and over because it's true that was your response to being asked to not to repeat something I will never stop saying that I'm sorry it's not only that the therapy with you I definitely found the therapy with you and there's nothing that I am there's nothing that I can do to see one time and then you couldn't I know but you're still you're still engaging really destructive behaviors they these things are not something that that couples therapy fixes and went to enough therapy with you to see what your intention was dead and using those sessions and now I know intention is to get to the truth so that we can live in peace yeah your intention is to never stop saying that it's my fault no matter what what's your fault that we are getting divorced with the intention is to never agree that it's possible that you have broken bolts I bought it but you only brought in our marriage covenant you don't have any intention of after that probably bring your marriage telephone with you there's nothing point is going to counseling with to convince me that it's okay for you to diversity of what you're saying if if you are automatically recognize that while you were cheating on Julie before I found out you were cheating on that truly if you if you already knew while you were cheating on this month that you were irreparably breaking our marriage covenant and nobody needed to tell and nobody needed to tell you that then that means you would be kind of person you would be a person who is capable of understanding the abuse that you've attracted on your life and if you are capable of understanding the abuse then you'd be able to properly repent of it off but you're not a man who is capable of understanding the damage that you sent your marriage because evidently you believe that such a thing exists as being able to log it is that you don't believe that such a thing exists as being able to really damage your marriage covenant you believe that literally you can do anything that you want to do to a person and somehow somehow that person has some kind of moral obligation to continue to suggest themselves to the risk of that happening it's happening again I'm not even while it's still happening I really don't have every well I have no idea what Behavior you think is Extreme enough because I can't think of more extreme behaviors add a manager varies Covenant and you still doing it. We still memorizing and it's still going shipping I don't know minimizing what does that mean you're saying that you did not probably the imager marriage you think that changing our marriage means that yeah can't be repaired and we are divorced and I think it would bother me that there's anything you've ever done that I haven't forgiven me for if you're telling me that I'm a terrible person I just had nothing to do with my capacity to forgive your life we have forgiven me I clearly have I'm not anything if you have told you that so we could be done with me bringing up your past sins forever like right now that's not a that's not a problem or an issue for me I don't feel the need to grow ruminate on it is it doesn't mean that I have to continue to subject myself to Lakewood unit risk and it doesn't mean that it would be good for me to trust you like if possible for you to repent and it's possible for me to forgive yep and it's still to be a good thing for me not to trust you because I recognize that being in a relationship with you comes with an extremely high risk of you doing things that are going to be damaging to the piece of our household just like you did yesterday and just like you did the day before so based on this conversation that we're having right now my healing is that I should know someone else to fix the toilet so I'm sorry you feel that way and I'm sorry that you think that I don't feel responsible for harming you and I'm sorry about the issue like I don't feel the burden of that when I do I don't think you because you're still doing it you think I'm still doing Maybe I can't remember the title of that money come over and fix things for you whenever you ask me I have them change and I don't know what that you have a you can you can listen Okay but you can listen to our past 6 phone conversations. It's amazing with how much I have made and repeated and explained and analyzed and in just walk in like hundreds of hours of outlining what the deceptive behavior is and you can say to me I can't think of any destructive behaviors that I'm engaging in I all I do is give you all my Bernie and fix things for you and take care of your kids I'm not saying that I don't come with that of your house and you ask me questions and I answer them like yeah but your answers to those questions are proof that I should not be married to you. stop playing with me and he hasn't responded that you said okay well that I mean that's kind of an odd thing that you just said there but I'll I'll let it fly about asking you you can happy me to do that for a month or so Destiny cut his part of his promise I am I I didn't tell him come come to me with half your thumb off I said I know that you're busy but I've been considering having a therapy with me when you are able to think about it I think about it okay hello all right I mean I think I've been expending a lot of energy trying to help you connect dots and your relationships and I think I need to be done after the go finish his chicken soup like you're you're treating me like some horrible person for I'm not what you did yesterday was fine but your but your analysis of it today like that you could say what you said which anybody I told you thought I did but you left out the part about him possibly not being conscious possibly being on narcotic because he responded to me when I offered through the chicken coop and just saying it doesn't it doesn't I don't I don't want to do this with you I don't understand what you're saying I did all I did was tell you I invited our pastor to go to counseling with me I didn't say and she saw because he won't do it with half his thumb like nobody thinks wage I know but you were like you won't do it and then you're like or you didn't respond I hope he does it will see according to you you think I'm going to murder him so I don't know if she thinks that or not but based on your behaviors like if I had done the behaviors that you would have done I would definitely be checking in with people and telling them that I'm only aware that that would be reasonable if they were feeling fears like that and I would be willing to listen to what their fears were and take them seriously and and owns that those fears are something that were legitimately caused by me that's just what I would do if I found myself in the position of having done those kinds of disturbing things Chicken Coop and go to counselling you know that's not what I'm referring to referring to stuff that I did and December and January that was scary so I'm sorry I scared you thanks but I think I need to be done and I'm wanting to I'm wanting to find ways out of my love for you to continue to be supportive of you as an individual and I'm wanting to find ways to help you emotionally and a morning I'm wanting to support our children being at least a small percent of like what you see your purpose for being on this planet and like I want you to be able to be involved a real father in a real meaningful way I'm trying here I'm trying in a relationship our relationship is faulty because the psychological issues that should be analyzed with a therapist and I'm sorry to have to say that but it it is not right to left me for my children's life it is right that's what I'm saying and the front room you're trying to marry somebody else so that they can raise my children and that is not okay not ever going to be okay well actually it is it actually is not dead legally need me on board to do that but that doesn't make it okay and it's okay that's your and then that's your opinion thanks for sharing with me I guess but obviously when I do what I'm going to do you say you can choose to still be a good father like you don't have to say I'm going to be their father not going to be their father yeah you are going to be there. I'm not I'm not going to be in the house I'm not going to be raising them I'm not going to be married to their mother she's going to marry somebody else even though that is Highly Questionable is dead this is not enough a situation and I'm not going to be able to like it can be not okay with you no I'm not talking about that I'm talking about morally it is wrong it can be morally wrong like it is it is possible for me to do something that is clearly wrong and for you to respond by doing something that is morally right that's possible and it would be the right thing for you to do to respond to my sin by doing something morally right well I'm sorry I harmed our marriage and I would give that anything to change it they told me that you're never going to believe that you irreparably harmed our marriage so I don't really see how he's an actual conditions for something that you don't believe you did I think back bad marriage so when you say a rapidly that implies that he can't when I guess what I mean by when I say A rapidly now is that obviously okay but I'm sorry I treated you better yeah yeah unfortunately you're not not treating me better so it's just a wish I said you can wish that you treat me better but you're not treating me better so it's just a wish how can I learn just create a better I don't know I mean I've done everything that I know to do and it's not helped so I giving up I want you to have yeah well I want you to sit down with me and come up with the divorce settlement that is going to allow you to be an active and positive influence throughout your childrens entire lives Lucy deserves for you to be the one to walk her down the aisle when she gets married thank you I don't have a goal of replacing you that's true that's your father not fair and I don't know I don't really want to get that it you don't need to tell me what my goals are you don't need to tell me what my motives are already told me when both are dead but that's because my children are being damaged by having a chaotic dysfunctional marriage modeled for them that doesn't make you not their father really interested in arguing about it I am interested becoming a better person that can there be better I think you need to do that no matter what you know that that's important to me an important to me and then I'm trying the best stuck in all right do you are you willing to rent settlement with me huh that's right I'll sign it well I think that you need to take some responsibility for what you need in order for you to be a good father I'm going to be a father and I think that you need to take responsibility that you are a father and you are going to be a father and it's not right it's not right for you to leave me with no father for my children you need to find the father for your children that you can actually get it going to be pretty hard for me to do without you co-parenting with me yeah it is and and honestly if you're if you're going to put you in that anyway like if if you're going to put me in the situation of being completely single month and not having my kids go with their dad any weekends and we having to be the one who are so that you can go on dates off and an adulterous married or not you're not going to take your kids on the weekends so we went from 50% or else I'm a terrible mother for not having them with you all week every other week to you're not even willing to take them one weekend per month that's the kind of father you are I don't care hand write it up however you want I'll find it yeah but I'm saying that you need to be an active participant thinking through 15 through know you need to decide you need to make a commitment about one month and it should be working on our marriage as long as I can until it kills me that's what I can it to you and that's not what I'm asking for I'm asking you to pay rent would you like me to come over and spend the two minutes it would take to fix your toilet no okay you're going to spend our money to take some issues and fix a toilet I'm going to fix my toilet and just need to talk to your you don't need to talk down to me like I'm some money though instead of you know you don't need to talk down to me like that song you are so no you're framing it as though I'm spending money I should not spend your framing it as though I would be a wise woman if I allowed you into my house but I'm a foolish woman if I don't need you don't need to do that I'm intelligent and I'm capable and I can take care of it and I don't need you to shame me for how I go about doing so I wasn't trying to say to you I was asking you didn't send our money to fix the toilet versus having any fixes okay well I'm not answering that CA was going to go to my counseling tomorrow okay okay well I want to divorce you and if you were really thinking that you are going to make changes on your end and you have things that you wanted work through with your therapist I think it would be good for you to stop arguing with me and stop fighting with me
speaker 1: I'm
speaker 2: trying to argue with you I know but obviously you do it even if you try not to and I think that I think they even if you made those changes I would not be interested in remarrying you later if you are not engaged as just as a father I mean if you're just going to say well I'm divorced therefore I'm not going to touch things that's not biblical can't remarry somebody that you off what part what are you talking about me when I talk to you like you owe it to yourself to read the Bible telling you you're not going to divorce me. You did not I don't believe you that well it doesn't matter if you believe me you read the whole Bible that's what I'm talking about no no that's not what I'm talking about I'm talking about now like if you're going to be making these huge and actually crazy life decisions and you're going to be a terrible game and you are you're talking about being a terrible father to your children based on a really warped understanding of the Bible if you're going to do that you owe it to yourself and those poor little kids to actually read the whole thing it's the least you can do okay that being said I did read the part about not remembering so what that part again yourself off you're not working me and then I was getting remarried that spot babe what are you talking about to make a friend request from my Facebook no y oh maybe from any late I must have been requested there forever go and see if it accepted it I didn't remember your last name I just want to be clear you think that if I divorce you that would not be a real and valid divorce because our marriage covenant is lifelong so in God's eyes we would still be married however obviously you're going to be better if we had a second wedding ceremony then we would cease to be married even though we had been married during the divorce. and God would be displeased by the renewal of our vows yes yeah I I mean if you're going to get married to somebody else when you're married at that you're not married to me and you can't divorce them either just okay yeah I agree with that I bought by but I guess I don't really appreciate this idea that finalize the divorce settlement and then like magically adjust like him suddenly married to a different person like it's really not right for you to be in the position of reading that because I could be single for the rest of my life you should be a good father to your children so so that your wife is in a in a position of needing to be desperate for money and the apartment because I'm dollars and your skills and the house you're not getting me I need you no you don't I do because nobody else can be a father to your children you're going to pick up either from my children and it's not going to be me know I'm going to pick a spouse who can help me model gladly marital relationship for your kit off for I'm going to stay single forever that's not very for you to provide not deciding anything area deciding everything and I don't think that's right I think you need to make some decisions for yourself
speaker 1: okay
speaker 2: oh I need to ask you something can you hear me yep you have like an email that subject line had something to do with your credit score going down yeah do you have something that like monitors your credit score and send you updates and stuff off and I just wonder if you could like send that more recent email access with to the part is that kind of shows the you know category that caused your credit score to go down kind of thing cuz I didn't look at it that I know kind of how those normally lay down off okay do you know of any reason you're Penn State is going down okay no I don't know why there's things that haven't been paid on time or okay possibly where using a greater percentage of available credit because we've been using those two and a rep will be working the name Axton L which was the strategy to give us more cash available to pay off the city so I do think we've utilized a much higher percentage and if that's the only reason what I'm sure I'll I then I will try which there you know there is cash available to pay the city down which which was the idea was pay the city down by the same amount that the MX record what was it the Fidelity Park went up you want me to go ahead and do that or is there a coronavirus reason to retain cash or well just waiting trust them to leave that credit available if you pay it down so will you don't need to keep the credit available on the city though because that's a really high interest rate want to use cash for and that would make no sense oh I was that it should be $10,000 and just have I'm sorry. You're actually cutting out a ton we should have money coming from the 2008 tax return at some point yeah what I forget how much but it was $5 I forget how much but it was thousands of dollars okay you're breaking up I don't know if you went somewhere where you don't have good reception or if you switch me off but I haven't been able to hear you very much for the last minute I don't know yeah maybe it would make me happy to serve you by coming in fixing your toilet which I promised will take less than 3 minutes and I promise I won't say anything to you yeah well I don't I already told you that I don't want you to do that
speaker 1: I
speaker 2: want you to work through what you need to work through to be different kind of person and maybe maybe even just maybe even just communication for you would be enough for you to be able to you know fix the toilet without any damage being done not going to be a little work on anything because nobody will communicate their problems with my therapist and I think of things that I am totally no which is the same as the Undertaker feels kind of worked with me yeah I mean obviously I read your intake paperwork I don't know what that has to do anything yet completely 1000% concur with their analysis of the data they were given okay like I said I'm just me with my perspective I can only give them my perspective so I'll keep going all right did you hear back about your cancer no did you to back about your cancer did you no how would I hear anything about your cancer I don't know you just asked you just asked me like like did you hear like there was some news to hear I didn't know what it is but you know that I don't know wasn't they say that you get your results back in and eat well no they said it might be too long weeks but also they scheduled my follow-up visit for next Tuesday so I don't think that this is the type of thing where they would be in a rush to give me my pathology when I don't have the ability to you know discuss it and ask questions about it and come up with a plan you know what I mean like I think that's the kind of thing that they would deliver during an office visit okay so if they say that it wasn't cancer does that mean like they like literally did it for nothing well I mean you can say that except that's the only way to rule it out so well I don't I can say the only way like we did the biopsy so we could have done another biopsy and it would have also been indeterminate we could have done another biopsy it would have also been indeterminate age honestly the biopsies are pretty like you know in kind of involved procedures and potentially even if we got like a a biopsy eventually that came back benign I might still be looking at needing to go in every six to twelve months off to have another ultrasound on it to make sure that it's still looks the nine so you know it's it's it's a rule out even if it's off even if it didn't need to be removed don't have to worry about developing into anything in the future at least I just suddenly got scared that I gave you the answer what I just suddenly got scared that I might have given you the answer can you check that out stress causes cancer will it out did you have sexual contact with anyone else cuz that can cause cancer thyroid cancer no okay cuz I've got to say that we I've never had sex with anybody else it's my wife have you had any contact though oh the other people's no I have not love you no how did you figure out that you had a thyroid problem PCP I manager yeah that would be make my blood work and think that it was wrong and it was literally we're just talking to me and running their hands down my next month which probably is something that you don't even notice that the doctors doing to you while they're asking you questions and listening to your heartbeat and stuff yeah yeah they're actually doing something so like literally Celtic oh yeah I mean it was kind of like a top-to-bottom she was like let me look at your eyes let me look here Thursday is open your mouth and say you know runs her hands down my neck getting ready to pick up the stethoscope to listen to my heart like but as she does that she feels the cancer like that's pretty crazy Granny's are going to the doctor I have an agent well no I was having issues I had my first sore throat back in the beginning of July and then I had to had some chronic sore throat starting in August so it's and there was like tonsillitis oh and like reflux that I think still happens because of how much reflux I had during my pregnancies yeah so I have and you started having that they wind up that you might get cancer right but that was esophageal okay but anyway there was stuff going on that one that has motivated me to get in there especially as soon as I got insurance yeah but I was I was I went in there like telling the PCP like I think I have an STD from my husband what yeah let's see this is you think you had like throat chlamydia or something that a real thing probably I think they all can you know I wish I could do that viral infections or I would not do that I know but you've really done way worse than that so
speaker 1: I'm sorry
speaker 2: I know what else to say besides you still doing it so no you still doing worse than that maybe someday I will help me understand what you talking yeah how is metal piece going I'm behind it's scary because it's all predicated on describe the process to my therapist says that it sounds like the program's abusive the participants it did help me understand things some of the terminology you've been using with me about power and control
speaker 1: and I don't know would you
speaker 2: like me to send you my materials that I filled out are you supposed to I don't know what did they say I mean I think it's supposed to work if you're supposed to send an advocate yeah but I mean are you supposed to give me your material or not not really say what's the material for 16/14 yeah but why who is it for like worksheet so that's a low oh you just for yourself I mean I submit them back on there so he's supposedly can see them but it's never really done anything with them yeah said it's for yourself basically yeah they're mine I can assure them but hey so they going to keep doing it because there have been helpful parts of it that I don't know I didn't like that you sign up for it and you fill out all this paperwork and you've got this you know indemnification thing in there and it's not until you get started off by like hey list a few things that from this list that you think that you've done to your spouse okay if I do it and then like module too it's like well now that you've made that list you have admitted that you are an evil evil manipulative you know of user and therefore everything that you say false everything your spouse says is true and if you get to the end of this program it you have any disagreements with your spouse then you just proving to everybody that you're an unbeliever and I will recommend to your church passed through that you'd be excommunicated from your church it's just like it seems really appropriate to me and I seems like that more or less that goes 99 charge and I just yeah I don't think they you and I having an disagreement over something that's too long ago for either one of us to be reasonably a hundred percent assured of our memory of is the hinge on which everybody judges my salvation and my Fitness in the mail has been in my I don't think that anybody I don't think anybody's birthday about anything that you've done prior to three months ago I really don't think that we're hinging on anything that's historical I'm sorry for what I said three months ago or two weeks ago and I just I don't I don't I don't know what behavior in a agent path you are deluding yourself into thinking that people are judging you by but I promise nobody's doing that they think that as long as you think that I'm abusive that I'm not a Christian basically yeah and I'm doing everything that I can understand your concerns and to make myself a better person yeah it's not because I'm evil don't care about guys it's because they do okay I feel like you put a lot more energy into disproving my concerns today then you put into understanding them and I feel like you put a lot more money into disproving my concerns yesterday then you put into understanding them and I feel like you put a lot more energy into disproving my concerns on Sunday than you put into understanding them and that might be a habit that's going to be really hard for you to change yes I had a better memory one like huge part of the problem cuz I don't know you got phone recordings
speaker 1: but
speaker 2: your concerns right recorded and I don't remember you know our concerns concerns on our phone calls you can listen to the phone calls and if you say okay I'm speaking let me pause it okay that thing that I just said does that represent that I'm trying to understand her concern or did that represent that I'm trying to argue against her concern and tell her that it's not a valid concern and you can just go through everything that you say for hundreds of years now and you can look at each statement and you can write the statement down and you can say oh there's a statement in which I'm trying to convince my wife that her concerns are not valid oh okay there's another statement which I'm trying to convince my wife that her concerns are not valid there's another statement where I'm trying to convince my wife that her concerns are not valid like you could just do that all day and all night you're not going to find statements that show that you're trying to understand what's that I'm sorry and I don't know I mean I don't know about the the excommunication component of all of that I don't I don't know he sure does he holds this I'm sure that's why you've got this indemnification agreement I don't know pretty I don't know that that's part of it cuz it definitely is I'm saying like I am saying that I don't know possibly my role as a female has relieve me of the high hi responsibility that God gives to some people to have to exercise his demand an understanding of church membership and you know stuff that I'm grateful that I've not really called to to have to get into or understand so I'm not I guess I'm not interested in making any you know claims of knowing what the best way is to handle that or you know last time the program where you tell them after they're involved in it that if they don't agree I mean if that was somebody else that they're not like it's just completely illogical if they did you have that point like this was a predatory to get me in trouble here and I'd like my money back no cuz I still want to do the program right that you're representing the program to other people as predatory and you're not really you're not really giving them the opportunity to make it you're not really giving Chris the opportunity to make that right with you 7 I guess you would just have to see him talk about it but he's not really interested in your opinion and if you say anything about it that needs going to recommend you get excommunicated like I just I don't need I don't need that on my plate so up until then I was like huh some of his videos are decent some of the videos really fun I could easily edit these for him and have the audio be so much more clear while I'm watching it off as an act of surveys and then of like totally a predator not going to do that but it's a good time 10th in there and I'm still going to do the program and I'm not talking about it to anybody other than you gave them again to see a cuz he was asking me about it I don't really care if he's what I need to be excommunicated cuz I feel like they're halfway off that right well no I just feel like if that is your overall life take away and concern about going through the program you're probably going to get less out of it no I don't care off so I know but I asked you about it and that's all you talked about for 5 minutes that you told your therapist and he thinks that it's abusive of the participants and you can't believe that in the first module they had you check off the behaviors without telling you that in the second module that they were going to threaten to like you don't sound very focused on the actual content which is what I would have expected you to bring up when I asked you how it was going. a good talk to you another time. Okay I didn't I didn't receive any information from you about the content and you get to talk about your concerns about losing a church membership for an extended period of time and I feel like I got a lot of information from you about that I'm sorry he has good contents that helps me understand some of what you're saying about power and control and it has helped me reflect on things that I've done sort of clear that we're not right I need to repent now have you identified any of those I can send you my worksheets I don't remember them right now well that's concerning sorry
speaker 1: so
speaker 2: like right after I did a module I had to go to Home Depot for work there is a work van there for something like Electrical Company or something guess what's the name of the company is I don't know I'd like big bold letters that like some crazy Lego it said power and control oh wow it's like electricians package it's like like a picture of it one good thing happened at work today what's that I had one of my investors reflected you plant set a built and I feel like their final final one next to me and said well we wrote down these couple of nit-picky things but with all of the 30 houses that we've built with the company uses the fastest and the best we're going to tell your boss and Richards did that have anything to do with Coronavirus no not really I mean a lot of you know what I mean a lot of cars have to follow in the right place for something to be fast I think it's on top of it which I always end which is easier cuz we've been giving me a lighter mode cuz maybe that title off right also they last guy that was out there ended up like quitting and wasn't happy and but only a few buildings there and they still 30 evidently so okay I thought that was me especially after I had I had my mom called today so she came out and sees bugging me now to call my mother every day yeah oh no I tried to tell her it's like I just talked to around Sunday and I told her I will call her every week so you keep calling me and asking me if I'm dead cannot be responsible for her said yeah but if your mother you just need to call her every day or at least textures events but did you tell her that that was did you tell her that your mother is a liar and that she's perhaps demon-possessed and that she has been terrible things to your dad and she her sister and that she is dead not good for your mental and emotional health well I told her that last part and I think she kind of got it but she still says she's your mother he got a call her life you can't say well my emotional health doesn't matter if you understand I'm not saying I'm asking cuz it's stressful to have my mom check on me I'm saying that she has interfered in my life in a way that has severely damaged my ability to have healthy relationships and severely damaged my relationship with my wife and you can't tell me that I'm obligated to continue to subject myself to that Gene and if you're going to continue to pressure me to do things that are not healthy for myself and my wife and my children that I'm going to have to stop taking your call to because you're crossing a boundary right now that's not okay it doesn't matter what you think about my mom or me or my responsibility to my mom you're not going to come here and fuck with my mind like this it's my life and you need to stay out of it and I'm going to continue to do good work for you I did not say that no I might as well quit cuz what you're saying that Richard supports are coming around and bullying people to do things that are going to put their mental health in jeopardy I don't think that he would see it that way well it's your responsibility to tell him in case you've gotta you gotta be able to advocate for your own boundaries and you got to understand that people who are going to bully you that way or be millions of your mother are not people that you need to be working for anyways so she's not trying to believe me like yeah she's telling you that it doesn't matter how much harm it is doing to you you need to call your mother anyway just because she's your mother dead that's not okay she's not qualified to make those kinds of decisions for your life and she needs to fully appreciate the ramifications of what she's doing to you. She's not doing anything to me I mean yes she is she told you that you need to call your mother no matter I can't make me call her I don't think it's okay for people to talk to their employees that way I don't think that you should have to put up with it he's really doing is trying to accept as he cares about me it wasn't me that she thinks that calling her mother every day is going to keep you alive no I think she just happens to things that I should do that and also the things that she shows that she cares about me that that will help me emotionally well Gene you want to help me emotionally you need to never ever tell me to call my mother again cuz every time you tell me to call my mother I'm going to think that you care more about not having to be inconvenienced by a crazy lady than you care about me being alive that doesn't feel like you very much about me at all it's not even to I think she does because he gives me yeah but if she understands what's healthy and good for you and she chooses to do the opposite then that's not care if she doesn't understand what's healthy and good for you because you not telling her then that's on you sorry if I'm scheduling that what is the what is the this language about power and control that you say you understand now
speaker 1: England's yeah
speaker 2: yeah I guess I didn't really understand why you thought that I had some I'm telling you what my perspective was before I didn't understand why you you would say that I had some power over you or controlled you and I literally can't control you and don't actually have any power to make you do things it didn't make any sense and it's not like I kept you locked up they talked about how abuser is like cancel the money checkbook and give people an allowance and so am I just wish you yeah but you obviously did do Financial abuse but I know what you mean I understand that it was not overt well I was going to say they talked about how some of the behavioral stuff that I did that was shocking would affect you being scared to do other things like when I was when I open the front door and they did all that weight scare you and so even though after that I wasn't receiving that I had power over you that would still affect you doing things that I wanted versus what you wanted right because the fear of you doing something crazy again which is your absolute intention when you did the crazy thing honestly my intention wasn't thinking total using the internet was that was it was absolutely it was a punishment for doing something that was different than what you wanted you absolutely absolutely we're trying to modify my behavior and I have a two-hour phone call in which you in which you explained in great detail what your intention was so you can't change it now okay obviously you remember that conversation but my recollection or something I was no no you were trying to teach me I'm trying to teach me a lesson to I was the one who had conspired with them I was the one who had brought them over to help me move things like God you were making a point to me what see how that would intimidate you other situations what and so you thought that I was controlling you actually were controlling it wasn't on my end it wasn't my perceptions you were doing stuff like that to me Non-Stop and the reason we get to talk about the one with my mom is because there's a third-party witness wage that I do to you without a third select when you knocked me to the ground in the shower because I left the shower head at the wrong angle sorry I don't remember that but that sounds horrible when you beat Gracie because I let her sleep on the floor by my feet and your office while you were at Ju remember that either I'm sorry when you when you wrestled me onto the couch and took my shoes off my feet to throw them in the dumpster because you thought they needed to be less by the door when you force me to wash the dishes in scalding hot water by hand and it wasn't allowed to add any cold to it
speaker 1: sorry because what what
speaker 2: said something that's confusing for me I don't recall requiring you to wash the dishes put any kind of way I just remember that I grew up that's how we watched the choice that I watched this is like you know you say well this is how I wash dishes you said no that's disgusting and the only way to get them clean they're brand new it hurt very very badly I didn't have to go to the hospital well I'm sorry but I mean those are only you know physical things you know how you treated me about my job and my concerns about being whored out to the world and that you told me that I would be worthless staying at home whether or not even kids to take care of because I'm such a slob anyways I mean it's not that big a deal as a one-off conversation but I think over the course of twelve years being devalued in that way by you trains need to avoid certain topics and if there's not if there's topics that I have to avoid in order to not be devalued then how do I really have a voice in these supposedly joint decisions that we somehow made as a team I'm sorry maybe filter value we didn't make me feel devalued you actually did it like I'm sorry I didn't value you you're very precious to me and I sit of I know but you I mean we're still at a point where you're telling me that like you never made a decision to work at a different house than when you sleep at a different house than where your family was living on your own because everything we ever did was a team decision yet there's never been a time where I was able to express concerns about my well-being and our children's well-being without being insulted and bullied in some way even even even when you're just talking down to me and saying that I don't understand about projects I don't understand about hiring helpers or I don't understand about the valley the market and how the home has to be at a certain level before you can get it I mean you can justify it to yourself as if you're just speaking facts but in reality I express my opinion about something well I mean if it's not actually an option for you to list the house as is and take a hit on your profit in order to be able to move on to the Venture that's not going to keep you away from your family so much then you should just take ownership of the fact that you're making decisions unilaterally and you need to just take ownership of the fact that your families will happen is not a factor in your decision making I'm sorry is that at that but I mean telling me that your career is never going to amount to anything because I keep interrupting you or needing stuff from you when I have a three-year-old and a one-year-old a newborn like and you're already working sixty five hours a week like that's I mean that's no that's not that's not expressing your opinion that you know what I mean it's not skating a fact it's just abuse let's say then in that situation though what I mean I think had a real concerned about being interrupted that I was trying to work during the day right you should have said no I can't take Lucy over to your mom's house right now can you call and ask if she's able to come pick Lucy up and how is that different than what I actually said cuz I don't you said that you're never going to amount to anything in your career because of me how you tell me how is that different cuz after you told me that you know what you did you took Lucy over to my mom's house you did nothing nothing to free up your time for that day you did nothing to minimize the disruption to your schedule but you did to me out and dressed me down and make me feel like garbage and ensure that I would think twice before I asked you for help next time and it was intentional on your part and it was strategic on your part and you do what you were doing sorry it should have. Feel about that you should be doing it now can I do what can I do it then okay something I can do that for you now what how can I do that for you now I mean I guess you could go through all our phone recordings and make notes cuz I've already told you millions of times and I don't feel good about you putting me in the position right now with having to re-explain it when every every time that I've explained it in the past you've argued against it I don't think I should keep making myself vulnerable in that way that's like if you're going to ask me what behaviors you're doing right now that are abusive and we know that we've been going on for several months now off of you tricking me into naming a behavior thinking that it's because you want to see it and understand it and not do it anymore but then as soon as I actually say the behavior of you minimize deny blame shift and then try to convince me that I have a psychological problem because I'm accusing you of minimizing denying a blame-shifting and you're not really doing it off I don't think that I could should keep calling for this I think that there's enough phone recordings that you can listen to if you're making an honest attempt to want to understand what the behaviors are that I'm concerned about I don't think it's right for you to come to me and try to trick me into naming them again I can do that but I I can serious you I just told you I mean the first half of this phone conversation I told you that time let me just go back and look into this and instead of trying to figure out how your wife is a sinner wanting to divorce you listen to the conversation with the goal of hearing what behaviors you're doing that might be slightly less than cherishing honestly after all we've been through I I feel like it you might be dipping your toe in the water of switching to a tactic of spiritual abuse against any spiritual here yeah and I don't feel like that's really been a part of our history but you're flirting with it for sure since some of your other I don't know tools are being taken away from you
speaker 1: what
speaker 2: is spiritual to be funny attempt to control my behavior by invoking God as being the one who wants me to do the thing that you're wanting me to do putting me outside of God's will if I don't do the thing that you want me to do that's pretty that's pretty strong I never think before you tell me your opinion if you stop and think about what the impact will be done many of you sharing that opinion with me and when you think about what the impact will be on me is there any shadow of a desire to influence me and the decisions I make so before you say stuff like stop and think what impact is this going to have on my wife there's a pretty good chance that you're trying to exert force of control on me since that's a little bit of a default for you but it's it's not a it's not a good use of the so difficult for me to see because not trying looking for you there you are you're absolutely I mean you can go back and listen to this phone conversation and you know that you made a lot of so you made a lot of attempts to get me to not divorce you you were making all kinds of arguments for why I should be in therapy with you right now there's a lot of coercion happening what sound like the phone I guess it's because like I said I could understand out
speaker 1: you would
speaker 2: take that shopping experience and then be fearful or me and 193 I'm trying to control everything about you but I affected you you know no no I'm not I'm unintelligent imaginer of danger to me that's not existing because you're so pure of heart that's not what's happening driving this spiritual abuse thing is the way you have it outlined is you get to have your spiritual opinion in fact that can be expressed but I can't express my spiritual opinion because because the purpose of the Bible is for you to have your own personal relationship with your Creator and your savior and he gives you his word so that you can log ask him to search your heart and see if there are any Wicked Ways in the U and you can read the Proverbs to understand how a wise man interacts with other people and takes counsel from others it gets that's for you for your walk with the Lord about marriage and that's I've read the Bible Dustin like I'm intelligent I have a relationship with the Lord I don't think that it is right for you to exert coercion on me relative to whether God is going to be pleased with me or not, if I take steps to free myself from the disruption that you've brought into my life that is not an appropriate application of the word of God to our situation inappropriate application is for the blood of Jesus and his great Mercy too overwhelmed with your sensibilities so much that you are transformed at a heart level and you desire to behave in ways that would not be harmful or sinful toward me and defend you actually start behaving in different ways and whether I need to totally to get away from the destruction or not is a moot point because the destruction is not happening anymore that would be an appropriate application of the Bible to our situation 19 but when you pick out a single verse and you say that God doesn't want you to divorce me to me or I believe that God can heal our marriage and it's your job to go to counsel couples therapy with me in order to be in God's will that's an inappropriate application of the Bible to our situation it has a net effect of trying to make me feel as though God will not be pleased with me if I escape from my abuser that is I think a really bad thing to do to somebody and I think you feel good about doing it when you're doing it and I think that it feels reasonable and normal to you and I think that it would offend most people's sensibilities can hear you talk to a woman that you victimized that way about God I don't know if it's that big of a deal really because like I said it wasn't I don't think they I don't really think that you did a whole lot of spiritual abuse back when we were together so since it's kind of a new thing relatively unaffected by it did you find out what your new counselors background is it abuse best yeah like does he have specific trainings he's been to it's a sedan ask about that I did not ask about that like do you want a guy or a girl dog yeah I just meant when you when you met him I didn't she said he was kind of weighing in on Christmas program being abusive to the participants home I wonder what kinds of abuse recovery programs he is familiar with and what his I don't know treatment modality or strategy is for that or or how much yeah he even has experience with it so I got a bad money I keep falling asleep okay really do care about you and I really I'm trying all right I think that if you analyzed are phone calls you might come to a different conclusion okay well I'll spend some time doing that and I I really do hope that you appreciate that examples that I told you about you're controlling behaviors are not representative of what I've experienced okay why did you use some internet representative because I don't think that it's possible to capture the Bratz and I think a lot of them are not incidents that you can pinpoint with wage the such a succinct explanation and because I don't I really don't like characterize your behavior very much so when when the coercion is carried out through the way that you deal with me so I can logically you know over a five-hour conversation we have late at night at one point like that's not something that's not something that I can just rattle off in a list you right now like all those times that I had to leave the house and drive away in the middle of the night like wage there were behaviors that you were doing that obviously as great as my memory is I don't I can't I didn't I didn't record the whole five our conversations in my brain and I can't recite it back to you right now
speaker 1: and
speaker 2: I'm not just going to like slap a label on you and say you were you know what I mean like and I was there and it was abusive and I experienced it and you were being terrible to me and it's kind of like like last like like in Erin Bell's office last fall it's kind of the same thing like well we didn't record those and well I can't quote back the entire two-hour counseling session to you and I don't really want to like be characterized or label it but what you were doing was beyond the pale and it was horrific and it was psychologically manipulative and and it happened it was real and you we're trying to control me and it was about power for you and it was not loving and it certainly was not cherishing send I don't think there's anything anybody can say that's going to help you see that if you can't see it then you can't see it you know I'm sorry I kind of does during some of that that I will listen to it again when I review our phone calls listen to what again they just told me about okay I'm sorry I will listen to it again okay okay bye love you okay bye