speaker 1: 
speaker 2: this call may be recorded press one to accept hello to some better I started talking to you again because you made me believe that you were really doing everything you could to change and figure out where you send this honest and because of that I put myself in a really vulnerable position because I believe you about that I put myself in a very vulnerable position by spending earlier about what because I believed that you were checking into a clinic with the intention of figuring out where you've been dishonest so that you could learn just online so because I believe that I put myself in a very vulnerable position of spending a lot of time pointing out every single dishonesty that I was aware of and allowing you to better learn how to deny some of these things or claim that I was misremembering or my perception or shift attention away from those things or say that you don't remember those things off so it didn't my investment of time didn't have the intended effect of you actually being able to see where you're lying and so Beauty yet I don't know what you're saying I'm lying about well and and I need you would say that and I have a lot of recordings so you can just go back and listen to them all and you would hear a lots and lots and lots of lots of things that I've spent hours and hours and hours and hours and hours and hours and hours pointing out to you and obviously this all started with your claim that you genuinely did not know what I was saying that you were lying about that's what wrote me in is this falsehood that you're in the dark and I'm just generically saying you're lying but I don't give any concrete examples like there's just so many obviously now I know about a lot more a lot more a lot more wives and you don't the lies and you don't need me to tell you which lies I found out about because all that would tell you is which ones I know about them actually know about all of them including the words I don't know about so absolutely no idea what you're talking about and that's that's fine but I don't want you to think for a moment that telling me that you have literally no idea what lies told is going to wrote the back into that cycle of coming up with one of your lies to tell you about so that you can figure out a way to get out of it I've learned my lesson this point I know what you do with it when somebody provides evidence right in your face in black and white letters that show you the truth and I know what you do with that so now that I know what you do with it when somebody shows you the truth and how it's different from what you've been telling people there's no reason for me when I find rely to bring them to your attention you know did you know me the number that apply to you but you're talking about and I'm not trying to lie to you log into all of our phone conversations and you listen for any write down every time to do that pointed out a specific lie okay that I'm saying there's no there's no fruit may be telling you more lies which have dealt with the ones that have already been brought to your attention I don't know what you're talking about I don't know if you were to know what the lines go back and listen to the recordings and once you're able to take that list of Lies I've already gone round and round in circles with you I know but once you've done that and you've repented of that and you've fallen on your face before God asking forgiveness for having done that and how to avoid telling them lies ever again in the future then it would make sense for me to give you another one to add to your list but right now there's not a purpose in be telling you more things that I did not know that you've lied about all that does is give you more power over me because all that does is give you a way to have it power over you give you all of our money like let you make a decision this is there's no power involved because because I have a beneficial for me to to point out what and that's a false belief for me to have I need to be able to live in reality where are happy to continue telling lies you're happy to continue living life with you you are to control it against me yeah you love to tell me all kinds of untruths about myself and who I am in Christ you love to tell me that there's something you love to tell me that there's something psychologically wrong with me because I won't admit that I'm wrong you want to tell me that all your therapist would say that there's something really really wrong with somebody who won't ever admit that I'm the one who's wrong to try to make me think that I'm a bad person for being right I mean that's that's odd I don't but but for you to leverage you are a bad person and I don't want you to think that but somebody somebody who actually does that behavior stop life other people and look at the mirror and deal with their own sin I've never tried this survey someone who actually has a problem with never admitting that they're wrong that person needs to stop and look at themselves in the mirror so when you're telling the the know your Endeavor wrong Aaron I think my therapist would say that there is something wrong with you for that like I'm I'm saying that saying that I've got recordings of you telling me that your therapist would say that there's something seriously wrong with a woman have said that but I know from a lot but what I'm saying is that you you are utilizing that to make me have to stop and go oh no there's something wrong with me because I think I'm right off but in reality it's just that you're telling lies and that's not my fault and that doesn't make me like selfish or if that doesn't make me like selfish or her assistant for not as it kind of wrong it just means that I'm not lying here which means that I am right and just because I am right doesn't mean that I have a problem with admitting when I'm wrong you just means that I'm I'm not wrong I'm not the one who's told lies and and you lied and you lied and lied and lied it drives the board at Honey Lake to the point where the money is coming like you did you did There's dozens that there's dozens dozens of saying I'm just saying if the information that you gave them about what's happened over the last year was not accurate information then they can help you with your actual problems so it doesn't make sense for me to allow you to continue leveraging to continue leveraging conversation that you had with your therapist against me when they had to go a business conversations against you are and I love you and I'm trying to be whatever it is you need to need to be and I said that's not true that's not true that's just lie all the time and I cannot help you with that is something that I can't fathom that I guess that's what I'm calling about is that we need to finalize a divorce you you are making zero progress you're probably as bad or worse than you were that moment that you decided to make jewelry a copy after I got her first one out yes I'm sorry it's not that and I said I'm saying right now worse you have an improved you remember the fact that they took everything that against me to make yourself look good well guess what Dustin I'm not controlling you just don't have any freaking money that's not my fault I didn't choose to go out and thousands of dollars on luxury items to put us $150,000 in debt that this I'm not the one who's in control here the finances like that's yeah that's that's all you and you shouldn't be speaking to me as though I'm controlling you should be speaking to me as though that you're being deferential I am I choosing to that I'm not trying to make you look bad I love you you're out of money am waiting for the fact that you don't have any money to spend because you don't have any money and it's not fair for you to call back to her and see what but it's not okay to call that said I said, referring to you and I am different different to me it's not you just said I should call it the first out of money off of money is not okay she's afraid you not having any money to spend because you don't have any money as being Noble because you'll be free to your life that's not okay to pick you said that I should call you sent you I'm trying to tell you that that's not okay for you to call it referring to money you just said that I should call it that four times that's what I'm telling you it's not you hear what I'm saying and it makes sense you can understand that the reason you don't have money to spend and because you have no money it's not because you know if your wife's controlling and you're referring to her it's because of past decisions you have things that you still will not go do you own them know you don't think that because the whole separate debate whether you can choose things they don't you should I now have a new string that's not that's not a gift to me that is nice to you so you did you said to me you said that you were referring to me this is not okay this is not okay when you go to the trouble lies about me it's not okay I wish you would help me understand the lies because I'm not trying to lie about you on the phone security I'll give you the ones that you already know about and I will tell you that there's a dozen more that I'm not going to bother with them because you can get the first ones right I told you I told you I told you and told you and told you that you're passing you to go to a couple counselor to help us I believe that you get the idea that you they actually know the truth no I'm fine with me the valuing them at all I'm happy that you have somebody that can help you with I'm willing to do that ever since last July but there's not going to tell you anything in your past results you would say know the truth there's just not I'm not trying to get somebody to tell me anything because you know I've done a couple of solve our problems the couples counselor do not have a marital problem that's what the couples counselor can say but that isn't it's not a matter of a problem Dustin you might feel as you have a little problem cuz you need your wife back of your control but does not actually would have been a real problem in a marital problem is not when one person is lying and cheating and trying to isolate their spouse from their support and they want to twist it around and they can't look like lyrics the wife would get the bad thing marital problems that's abuse I don't want that you don't want what I want you to be happy and okay and I wish I could get that to you I think we need to divorce that then that's what I'm trying to call to talk about his lawyers to do our settlement because you've indicated to me that you already have a certain way that you want to settle which indicates to me that we don't really need lawyers like we did when we weren't able to have a conversation about how we wanted to sell I'm not trying to lie to you and I'm not trying to not take responsibility I'm trying to because be well well no no I would love to own everything that I can possibly own and change it that's the entire point of me going to Honey Lake did you ever think of anything that delivers said that wasn't true and I started it they didn't finish it it was things he said that were untrue what uses would have because zero items on the list to be able to accept that everything you ever said was true that was the point she was taken you about 10 seconds. but you also know that you have lied and said that I was only allowing you to see your kids every other weekend and one dinner week you have to admit that's a lot if you told that lie to a lot of people and insane number of people have heard that live from you and and you have to recognize it as a lie and if you need to work with your private therapist to figure out how you have a break from reality contributed to you being able to sin against me in that way and you can explore delusion ality with your therapist but it was blatantly untrue okay and you also told me you would do anything after that you can I ask you to sign a piece so that was pretty manipulative for you to allow me back into communication with you thinking that I had to safety of you being the person who was actually taking a needed in order to store our relationship and instead of doing that you figure out ways to make me look bad or feel bad for trying to get us help them I think would actually help and manipulate me into getting in the couples counseling with you when I told you would everywhere and know how to tell you that we don't have a marital problem you have a severe character problem.
speaker 1: do you
speaker 2: understand where I'm confused you understand that everybody that I have to like you cannot see that you've lied to these people and I don't know and all it takes me talking to that person you know twenty minutes for them to recognize computers a lot of spices the story and all it would take is they talking to them for six hours for them to understand what you said three is false so it's not even a matter of perspective you're actually lying about things that I have documentation did not occur that way outline and checking into eventual hospital and help me I I'm crazy I want to help I don't I don't want to harm you you lie and you lie a lot you think I want to harm you you know it's not my responsibility as your wife to figure out why you do that when you're lying about me then I'm the victim I did everything I could I everything I could do I found honey like for you and you really really little manipulated that if I'm going to piece for you and you were incredibly Hard Hearted to what God wanted to say to you through that so what you were incredibly hard hard with the what God wanted to say to you through Meneses there is no requirement that you have to be solid and I went to a seminar it's denial you're just in denial you're just blame-shifting dependent and there hasn't been there's there's never a bad signal thing out of all the Sims and then egregious sins that a single thing that you've actually said I chose to do that that was in total I will do that anymore and then actually start doing that thing can understand that I understand that that about Julie said that about Julie I said that about our finance officer as well why do you say that I didn't say that about it it is not like you have told me you haven't been financially reciprocal I didn't tell you that yes you did I have a recording you said I have made some bad choices but I have not been financially irresponsible okay well I did make some bad choices I said no no you didn't like everyday lives know it's all 3 every day for years that's not some bad choices and they monitored our net worth while I was not working and it's terrible to manage your networks name that it just you keep that in your mind to justify all these horrible things but you're doing with your finances and then extremely unwise you should have pretended that that's the real estate did not exist you should have allowed that to be with supposed to be which is just a long-term investment not something that justifies don't remember testify pay thousands of dollars in late fees alone when you have liquid available to actually make them say this in with that payment we agreed anyway with me and I thought you can't use your next thing I mean that's what I'm trying to say and I don't think that I've ever received this differently but was clearly something wrong with me and I thought maybe because he had such a good Network I was being so responsible by not saying that like you should not you're not a person who should be tracking your network I'm sorry that's definitely part of the problem because you will allow it to lead you into delusion okay but today like it does not make sense to be signing that action is something that was financially responsible or or anything you keep saying that yeah you told me you've made some bad decisions and that is that's not responsible there that's but that's not the case it's not the case that you have made some bad decisions it's just being financially irresponsible over nine years and when I say that what I'm saying is every moment even when there's spend you were financially responsible for years because your entire life was financially irresponsible I mean where you were living with irresponsible what your wife to go would be responsible where you were working with irresponsible like the entire situation was, hold on a second chance I'm back okay. Yes can you hear me yeah so I just feel really bad for what you're doing to me right now because it is absolutely inappropriate for you to use your wife in this way for me to have to be the one making a case to you that you've been financially responsible not only is that not something I should have two are saying that I don't not that I should I don't understand what I'm saying that say you hold me on the phone since you got out of time that I'm financially responsible I I I don't remember it being this and I don't agree with that I doing that it is not traumatic for me to like that and have to be the one who deals with the aftermath of those lies it is in a piece because when I talked to him he didn't sound like he thought I should I I will go to a mental hospital phone now it's so Forever Until I can be better I'm not trying to lie to anyone who but you lie all the time Dustin you've been telling people that I said I would be something wrong with me if I can understand reality then there's something wrong with me yeah I know but it's not okay to put that burden on me on your life America security like you I love you a hundred percent but you will not open yourself up to any actual accountability there's people who love God and are really really really highly functional in business and highly functional in finances and highly functional and work-life balance and highly functional and marital relationship who are willing to sacrifice their time they love you like people who would do anything for you and love you and they recognize that it is not appropriate for your wife to be placed in the position that you were placing is right this second it is not okay for me to ever have to utter the word you have been financially irresponsible to my husband that's not what a wife is for God did not make a life to verbally insult her husband and tear him down you can't have a marriage built on a life having to come to a husband and verbally criticize him and decimate him in that way God gave you other men for a reason wage it's so that your wife's could have her rightful place as your supporter and your wife and your life but I can tell you with complete certainty complete certainty that Nathan and Ted and Megan would all give them flow support if you would commit to actual accountability within our church body that God has placed you in and I can tell you what the absolute they said that I couldn't even go to that church lies our I know all of the lies I know all of them well I don't do all of them but I know enough of them I know what the lies are and they weren't these are not perceptions that they're outright factual distortions on your part that had to be intentional there I'm just saying there is out. I have no idea what you're even they barely even would talk to me so I don't suck at Honey Lake could have possibly said relating to anything in your life and and I am including your work life and including your church life including your home life and including any sleep life left without so Luke least nothing that any of them could have said that you needed to even take with more than a grain of salt like it is completely not applicable it is completely useless and is completely meaningless off because all they had with the lies that you told it intake yep Thursday better like trying to got get help I can do it for you you said that I was as I view it am sorry that I didn't adequate to do this you're you're plenty adequate you are absolutely that I've ever gets you everything. Thank you. I'd like to get help people it's not true yes it is the truth it's not it's not too late Thursday you checking Honey Lake and you told lots and lots and lots and lots of files about me and then you send an email to your attorney telling him to go Full Speed Ahead trying to get the kids to be with you 50% of the time and get half of our assets
speaker 1: and
speaker 2: let all those lies about me and my whatever my imputed income so you'd have to you know less child support to pay I mean if you want it all that to stand like you weren't going there to learn to be a good husband you literally went there and going to be a good husband I don't know you told your lawyer. Ahead you didn't write your home I'm going to need you to revise or you know statements that they don't say that my wife is putting the her wants above the kids needs you did not I'm going to need to revise what I'm requesting because I don't want her to have to work because she needs to be free to homeschool our kids when things settle down like you weren't doing anything okay I'm sorry I when I got the Honey Lake stop putting communicate with me and I probably did not handle that figure well sorry they do make you know homeschool my kids I guess that all of our assets and have a good life I didn't go to be late to the see if anybody I got like to get better and I can't think I can just I don't totally I don't know I don't know I'm doing the best that I knew how to do to get better for you and I would keep doing it but I don't know how else to do it yes I did wish I could be what you need to be I care about you you can't you can't this is not like an immutable character trait of yours you can just say I'm not going to lie anymore like they you can just say like and there's been times that you have told me that I've lied and I've said you're right that's a lie like I can understand that that's alive and when you say same thing go by the plan to buy I don't understand that I'm trying to cover up lies when you tell me that I've lied and I know that I lied I'm going to admit it off that's the right thing to do like a if you want to say that I ever in the history of the universe have prevented you from having couple of your kids for more than five seconds you're lying right just give us another line like that's what I thought I what who thought that's what I saw it says have the kids doesn't make sense I'm saying I'm crazy I'm crazy I'm so crazy crazy yeah but you're crazy in a way that villainize is me you're crazy in a way that blames me for stuff that your responsibility if you want to have your kids for a week wage then you stop and you think what are my kids going to need they're going to need someone to take care of them while I'm at work okay my wife enrolled them in public school so that's a good chunk of the day off I get to work late enough that I'm able to drop my own kids off at school know I have to be at work an hour before that I'm going to need to get care for them an hour before that how can I do that I don't have enough money for that where can I get some money to get my kids before care my mom is wanted to help me in every way I could let me call my mom and see how much my mom would be willing to pay for my kids to have before care and Aftercare let me call around town and find out what the name star and see if the amount that my mom's willing to contribute is enough to cover it okay this place is somewhere that's affordable my mom has agreed to pay for it I'm going to sign the kids up okay. The kids all signed up they can do it on Monday okay I'm going to tell him that I picked the kids up Monday like you just don't understand that you just do it off my responsibility the fact that I wasn't doing all of that for you didn't mean that I was preventing you from picking them up and I'm not saying I expected you to do any of them I'm saying I asked I would be able to have them but you never you're telling a lie you asked if I would be your before and after care ask that one time cuz I thought that you would enjoy it but at that time I didn't say no and by the way no matter what you're not allowed to have your kids for weeks like I recognized that we were actually divorcing and it would be actually good for them to be doing overnights with you but you weren't putting anything on the our family with your calendar yourself except for Timber Creek Festival dead or Timber whatever or what is it River or something does it literally the only thing you ever scheduled for them ever so I went out of my way and took some initiative to give them more time with you than they had ever had in their lives I did that I thought about your work schedule and I thought about how to make sure that it wasn't interrupted I thought about making sure that you still had time to get done the things that you need to get done in the evenings and weekends off like I did a good thing for you I was a good servant to you and the time that you got to have with your kids was really amazing you actually Focus your attention on them it was actually good and even that every other weekend is something that you should have taken the initiative to do yourself and it is really really really sad that when I am the one who goes out of my way to make something good like that happen for you even though it's your responsibility you get it to twist it around on me and make me into a villain for doing that nice thing for Thursday you're not a safe person to support you're not person to help I I don't need the trouble trying to straighten out all this mess with the credit card that pay off your bills for you and make sure we don't have all these late fees anymore get interest rates down and guess what I am now your wife is financially abusive to wow that was magical now you're literally giving all I'm just saying the way you make it into literally giving you my whole paycheck I'm the one who's working full-time and you're not and I don't think anybody but $25 a week like that's what you make me and helping you into it is so dangerous for me it is so dangerous it's not okay though for you to for you to even know who you think I'm talking to I'm not talking to anybody to me you're talking dead do not see how manipulative that is for you to frame a situation where I'm acting as a servant to you cleaning up your mess doing things that were your responsibilities all along and now you frame it to me as though I am a controlling life you frame it to me as though you're you're being financially abuse you just told me today that you've purchased with me but you said you prefer me to have control of all the money like that's not a way to print off that's okay way to phrase it an okay way to phrase it is that your white is living frugally an okay way to phrase it is that your wife is not getting to play with her own children and she's having to tell them to go with the other room so that she can sit down at the computer make phone calls and be on hold with credit card companies that's an okay way to raise it it's it's an okay way to phrase it that you messed up really badly and your wife is bearing the brunt of the burden of the abuse that you have enacted over the last several years spending money that you did not have on items that you did not need and would not produce any income for you thank you. Okay way to phrase it but when you take me helping with that and make it into your deferring to me that's not okay when you take it giving you every other weekend with the kids and I just heard that into I wouldn't allow you to see them at any other time that's not okay it's not when you try to tell me that you as financially abusing me I'm thankful for your help and my perception that's what happened with the kids was not alive that's how I saw it and if that's not accurate then I'm sorry I'm not trying to be ever okay okay okay in saying that I tried to run you over with a car that's terrible when you were inserting your head into my vehicle when you were walking to your vehicle's key word you had to use the passenger side I'm talking about at church you knew that I was trying to get away from you like you knew you knew that you had to come from the other side of the car in order to get a word in with me. Can you do that was your only about after church when I wasn't communicated I wasn't communicating with you by phone I wasn't texting with you off and instead of allowing me to leave you follow me out to the car you get in and act like you have to that you're saying goodbye to your children you have to get in the car and buckle on and I had to go and wait by the door to be away from you and you know that I want to be away from you and when I go to get in my car and you can't not remember this Dustin you open the package remember it off yeah and then you go back in the church and you know that everybody's hungry and you know that the laws have five kids but you let Allison have to babysit them so that everybody can have a meeting at your job Panera's office where you tell them that I tried to run you over with a car I'm still recollection of that baby I have so Kevin came out with Kevin he came right to me and he said so I hear you trying to run somebody over in the parking lot huh oh okay I don't and and Aaron later told me that he confronted you with it it's Aaron said he went to you and he said for you to state that you're wise tried to run you over in the church parking lot is beyond the pale I'm just telling you he took he told me that was his word that he used he told you know beyond the pale. Either this is really convenient I mean it's not like you just go around telling my wife that that's not super convenient way that he told you that it is beyond the pale to tell people that your wife tried to run you over with a vehicle and he's right but I'm saying like you know about you knew that we're doing these really bad things while you were doing them you knew you were telling these terrible lives while you were telling them like these are the month so we fix behaviors that people saw you engaging in and each day managed to take them to new heights you were stalking me you were not respecting my boundaries you were making me very uncomfortable and even yesterday when you stood with your hands on your head and said the problem and Simon said is it cuz the problem only bought two Easter baskets and you said don't my children know how to share I'm asking your Mommy what's the problem and when I told you that you were making me uncomfortable instead of saying sorry I'll let me know when you're ready for me to come back instead you said I have to go kids I'm making your mommy uncomfortable I just don't see any Improvement that's really really really really going out of your way to mess your kids up psychologically I couldn't if I was if I was a person's background life was to figure out how to mess my kids up psychologically I wouldn't be able to come up with the stuff you do but I just that behavior yesterday does not feel all that different to me than you sticking your head in the passenger door the church parking lot in order to make me have to talk to you and then telling people I tried to run you over the selective Amnesia is a little odd and a little bit unfair it's unfair for you to call my memories selective Amnesia on that well it's unfair to me it's unfair to be that you can lie and lie and lie and lie and lie and then try to make me feel like I'm imagining it which it is it sounds like to me you're trying to tell me what it's like all this terrible abuse that happened to me didn't happen because Dustin doesn't remember it like how are you doing repentance day that your brains pretend it didn't happen
speaker 1: I
speaker 2: don't know I think you think that I'm lying a lot of time I'm not remembering and I don't know how to help it sorry but I do remember yesterday and then sorry about how I spoke to you I was frustrated and scared and I didn't really understand why you had stopped communicating with me again and they had gone off of my medicine because that was driving me crazy and I did not when you go when you go off of your medicine when you cross your medicine what do you take instead nothing what do you need in Staten probably have a I mean what what do you take that you haven't been prescribed I don't know I said Tylenol one-time why Tylenol I took my mom sent from Alabama from her nurse sister then it shows up and like I open it like oh I have a headache I'll take this pilot now and then twenty minutes later she texted me burning so you get the package from kailash do not open it she's not feeling well thanks Mom why are you suggesting I'm taking something else I'm not and hello and well enough of my that very cuz that and I can't remember what it's called mr. oh haven't taken it in like a week first I felt a lot better then I got a lot more depressed again leading right now when you feel these bad feelings what you're supposed to feel because you're doing that thing looks like taking it so that's not depression that's just feeling like guilty which is God's way of saying you should repent well any if I had real clear ideas about being guilty of something that I would repent because I'm a Christian that's my favorite how are you going off of telling people that you that I tried to run over to the church parking lot you're do you remember that seminar we went to last summer at the prime Osborn Convention Center he said memory is necessary for repentance I need to go to a mental hospital stay there if I'm not lying about not remembering that doesn't sound at all familiar to you cuz there was so many times that you stopped me into my car with the pretense of needing to help kids buckle honey I do remember I remember once trying to buckle the kids I remember following them out so that I could say goodbye to them and I guess it's just become a horse I mean you say goodbye and you say goodbye again and then you tell them all they have to come back cuz you want a kiss from each one yet somehow them a goodbye and it doesn't make sense I guess that one very strategically ended with me being in my driver's seat all buckled in and you being on the TV with the kids and I didn't have a chance to say goodbye to them it's not true that's not true I I stood way far away from the car and waited until I saw that they were all buckled and I thought that it would then once you got out these States Army to get in because you would have no excuse anymore because they're already all buckled right used to say goodbye their kids right I know but bright then I waited until she would had a sort of way to you could have spent twenty minutes saying goodbye to him I wasn't even there but you you were using every opportunity you saw me to try to make me feel bad and so that's why I was keeping my distance because that optic was not good for our kids psychologically off for you to be standing there with puppy dog eyes in front of them pleading with me making me look hard-hearted that's not okay for your children to think that their mother is hard-hearted dead that's not okay they're not going to be able to have healthy relationships if you do that in front of them you get as much time you needed and I waited because that was my strategy may be able to get in my car and drive home without my children being psychologically damaged by what you did in front of them and instead you opened up the passenger door and stuck your head in and when I put the car in your recollection of this and when I did and they'd when I turned on the car you acted upset with me that I was leaving without talking to you and I said goodbye to you and I put the car in drive and you looked offended that it wasn't stopping to talk to you and I said good-bye again you went into that church and you called the Vietcong and you told them that I tried to run you over I don't yes you did on the spot without an appointment you had Aaron and Brianna and I think Kevin I'll go in your office with galles of babysat the kids that was the day that you told them that I tried to run you over with my car in the church parking lot but like this is you just telling them that you would like I'm telling you with detail I'm telling you like a minuscule tiny split-second detail right and you can see how that behavior is dead and calls it Beyond The Pale right and I'm seeing that is just one thing they ever did it Beyond The Pale uh but that's yes he did but that's one behavior that you were doing over a six-month course of time that people could see and for me it's not all that different wage then how you've operated our whole marriage like twisting things around on me to make me feel bad or look bad when I'm not doing what you want to do it feels a little to me and maybe it feels so normal to you that you don't bother to think of that as a special event that you're going to put in your long-term memory but it's a like can you recognize that that that's a bad thing to do so it's a bad thing to do to stick your head inside the passenger door when you know that your wife's trying to get away from you yes and can you recognize that going and telling people she tried to run you over with the car is a bad thing to do yes ma'am so it's also kind of like a lie can you see how it's like a lie can you see how it's like a line going to be truthful with you like always and even in this moment and they I think that you're thinking that when you put the car in reverse that was back into my parking spot that day because I knew that it might be not be stopped by a forward and I said goodbye to you for the second time can I pause long enough for you to walk away and I knew that the front tire was clear of you because you were again in the passenger door and I used as gently as possible off of the break go ahead you were saying you felt like it was a very interesting if it was in tell people who have seen that happen that your wife tried to run you over I don't know they have I guess I'm worried that if I say that now you're going to think that I'm trying to defend it and that's not the point I'm just I mean to you your wife tried to run you over you feel like that's an honest statement for someone to say when she waits says goodbye turns on the car Wait put the car in forward says goodbye again you you made some statement like you're unbelievable is is off of the break when you're not in front of the car and you're not in front of the front Tighter and you're pretty good distance away from the back tire you feel like it's honest to say that your wife tried to run you over with a car I don't remember this incident clearly like you seem to and so I can't remember my feelings I'm not worried about your feelings whatsoever I'm not even worried about your perception I'm just worried about truth and untruth like the actual meaning of course as they relate to actual events truth and untruth that's what I'm worried about your perception of that that event is is of not very not very much consequence to the truth well that informs my reception is skewed that's the reason that God put people around you who am I correct those wrong beliefs and put people around you who can help you see right perceptions so that's why I'm saying what I'm concerned about is what actually happened and whether the words match the events because that's how you derive a truth value for a statement and your perception is important in in understanding like how far off you are from being able to see things accurately and your your perception is important because then we know how much you need to stop leaning on your own understanding and how much need to recognize your need for other people to speak truth into your life but you feeling away doesn't make it a truthful statement you can't feel away with your frustration or your indignation pin or your anger or resentment that makes tried actually apply to what I did the word tried has an actual meaning that is independent of the chemicals that are being released in your brain the word tried right that that means something in in the events that occurred have to meet the burden required by the dictionary definition of the work tried otherwise you're saying something that's not true and maybe all it does is make you feel better because you get to feel like those brain chemicals are Justified but that doesn't make the events match what you're saying and I I just cannot I'm sorry I'm not upset about that I'm telling you that you are a person who loves eyes and lies a lot and you really need something that I that I tried to run you over with a car like do you understand there's never been a moment in my life where I've had to do more to try not to run somebody over with a car like try imply the intent and I was having to try so much harder than anybody should have to try back to not run over somebody who's doing everything in their power like to try to be in the way of the car you have it backwards it was more like you were trying to get run over right and so that's a little bit of you projecting you're you're behaving in a way that's not really responsible around the vehicle but you you can't actually think that I tried to run you over with a car that does not it does not make sense I mean honestly like this is something that you should be doing with a therapist right now not me right therapists are trained they would know what questions to ask you to help you see how you know who that would have the entire fleet of being going to Honey Lake no no just went there and you lied I wish there and I tried to explain to them your point of view so that they could help me and I tried to get no
speaker 1: you
speaker 2: lied I wasn't trying to lie that's what I'm saying you calling it a lie and I was giving you the best perception of what happened was trying to misrepresent anything and I think that's the key thing like you don't understand about me I'm not told them that you could just go on and on and on and on and on Dustin you told them that you should see a problem with your relationship with Julie while I was in Cape Cod that's a lie it kind of isn't a know if it's a huge line Dustin it's a huge lie like do you not understand what is meant by that is it's a huge lie right if I had seen it as being wrong I wouldn't have done it you were coming home and you were masturbating and you were thinking about having sex with Julie you were getting up in the morning trying to impress her you were thinking about her you were spending more time with her you were wanting her to bring her family to Fernandina so you can buy them dinner with money that you did not have to understand a club with her like eating lots of me to buy an alcohol like you saw that all those things worse in you were engaging in that spin and it was feeling really good to you you knew it was extramarital you knew it was wrong and that's key right that's key because nobody can understand any of the context for it if you begin with the lie that you didn't see something wrong with your relationship with her yeah what you might have is a seared conscience like you might be so used to engaging in that kind of thin because you just watch porn and porn and porn and born and porn and you've seen so many hundreds and thousands of women engage in sexual behavior in a way that allows you to get off on it and get pleasure out of it and release all those brain hormones and chemicals and have all of those ejaculations off without you actually having to care about that person that you're looking at and thinking about so there's a lot wrong there with your ability to experience normal levels of Shame and guilt but that doesn't mean that you don't know that it's in just because you enjoy doing that sin doesn't mean that you don't know that it's wrong while you're doing it I agree with you and some of the like knew that I was infatuated with Julie's you were acting on it you were engaging in a high levels of spending lots of time when you were with her and lots of time when you were home all by yourself acting upon that infatuation so you knew that it was Way Beyond these feelings that you were having network problem you were choosing to act on inappropriate feelings and you knew it was simple so you you can't start your story with I never saw something wrong with that until my wife brought it to my attention because then the entire rest of your story has no meaning that is rooted in reality the entire rest of your story is now it doesn't even exist you know what I mean every every other detail you could possibly tell about that story is not going to be understood in a true way also I came to that conclusion when I was at any Lake and I told them that no no no no no you came to that conclusion you came to that conclusion before I even went to Cape Cod okay I like you need while you were doing it I'm saying I told the people that have any wakes told them that I viewed it as an affair that I yeah but they didn't know about all the nights that we had our like stayed up telling you that and you were still denying yet even though everybody knew they didn't see the crap that you put me through all they got to see was sweet on it's genuine contrite Dustin fully owning what he's done but they didn't get to see you're lying and lying and lying and lying and lying and lying and lying I wasn't trying to hide anything from them it just didn't get very much time and I know you walked in the door and you told you walked in the door and you told you told the life that you never saw anything wrong with your relationship with Julie you told them that I asked the McDonald's to have you move out of our house that's a complete lie didn't tell them that yeah you did no I didn't yeah you did no I didn't did you tell them that I asked them to have you move out of their house no never even thought that it's funny because doctor Krupp put that in his report to you understand these are you're taking one person saying something another person during probably half of it and writing a report it's it's the same with those financial. C test for me mr. all my work product and none of them are complete
speaker 1: what
speaker 2: are you talking about I'm saying I saw that in dr. Cox report was inaccurate he didn't hear me right or misinterpreted something I don't know but it's a coincidence that honey like also thought that you were indicating that I had gotten the McDonald's to make you move I guess I don't think he's at the McDonald's to make name and stuff like that yeah but you understand that you're dealing with people who somehow took what you said and got that from it hold on give me a call me hold on for a second yep sorry about that you still there yeah do you understand how impossible it is to expect anybody to at all even slightly understand your situation or your struggles if they think that your wife is going to other people to get other people to get you to move out of your house and get other people to make you have to you know live in a hotel they have nothing to say about your situation because they're talking about a completely different situation they're talking about a situation where there's a wife who would go and get them and to get her husband out of the marital residence talking about a wife who would go and get friends to kick them out of their house so we have to live in a hotel okay
speaker 1: I
speaker 2: didn't know that they thought that I didn't read their notes you told them that I wouldn't let you live in any of our other properties I asked to live in our other properties and you didn't want me to know we didn't have any money invested like this is the same thing as you saying that you're deferring to me by letting me have your page right now like that had nothing to do with me we did not have money because you have been spending and spending and spending and spending money on luxury items for years and you have run up our credit card debt and you miss so many payments a lot of them are in penalty APR you were gone all the time working on jobs that were hemorrhaging away our savings and our retirement that's the right reason to tell people that you can't move into one of our properties we have to have that rental income in order to pay the mortgages you can't go to somebody and say my wife won't let me move into the rental when your wife hasn't actually taken any action legally changed to try to prevent you from moving into any of the rentals you just don't have an account so that I can not my job we have to talk to them they you're not listening to the part where we did if we're going to maintain two residences have any money that was not my fault that was not my fault we did not have money we were going to have two residences which were going to if we get divorced then we would have more income we need to move I would need to move out of Stanley Drive that's just math this is not me trying to decide where anybody lives just math I would have to move out of Stanley Drive and we'd have to get a tenant in Stanley Drive and then I would have to go get a single wide somewhere near 17 and I would probably have to get another single mom to move into that single wide with me. And then you would have to probably get a single wide somewhere in oceanway and you'd probably have to get three other single men to move in with you that's how poor we are that's not my fault that's what you need to tell people your financial situation is because of the way that you have been living and how financially irresponsible you have been and how completely in denial you have been about your lack of earnings and you're spending money that you don't have and sticking your head in the sand and trying to lie and cover-up about it off as if that's going to somehow stop it from catching up with you if you tell people that story they can understand what your struggle is they can understand what your mental health problems are they can understand why you've come to this place. They can understand what you need in order to get better I've been so financially responsible that if my wife and I have to have separate households it's going to have to be in single wide shared with other people but instead you told them that your wife would not allow you to live in one of your properties that you own and are entitled to you can't trust anything that those people say because they're talking about a completely different situation than the situation that you're in there talking about a man who is has been network box that you're correct three houses and a net worth of $400,000 and a wife who goes around to other people to connive to give them in a hotel at blocked him from being able to live in one of these houses that he should be entitled to because he's so rich that's a completely different situation that is our situation no it's not it's not we don't we can't afford that Dustin the reason we can't because I support all of us know it's because of the decisions that you've made for the last four years it's because your $150,000 off debt it's because you're going out and you're buying office chairs that are like but that's been your justification that's been your justification for doing all those responsible things all the time in the back of your mind conversation issue if they if your thoughts on divorcing me then we were going to have to have separate households and it was the best that we can't afford it described anything in accurately to them I don't if you told them that I was stopping you from living in one of your houses but they didn't understand that you had no money because cuz you've been spending money you don't have four years and hiding the credit card debt and missing so many payments there in penalty APR then you're not accurately describing it they don't know that and they don't understand why you can't live in one of your houses they're going to think that your wife is just abusive financially and there I think that your wife is just too lazy to go out and get a job that's a completely different situation that is a man who has been horrifically abused by his wife and has endured some terrible trauma and really needs help getting through that trauma that's not a man who has been financially abusing his wife for years it's just so depressed that he doesn't have that control anymore I did nothing to stop you from asking our tenants to move out I can't answer tenants to move out where you supposed to make the decisions together we're both on that we're both on the T that have you to put into the house what what if you've had just sent them to move out you wouldn't have been able to pay the mortgage I can't send them a letter to move out you have to sign off on that you wouldn't what you're talking about right now is absurd because you didn't have the money anyways you could not be encouraged to pay for a house for me no not in pay all your credit card bills not and pay all your utilities not and if you could this not your prerogative you have to you would have child support obligations because you've got me pregnant three times like for it and saying they I'm seeing that I have a right to give an account on Amelia Island you don't deserve a lunch you're not entitled to a luxury lifestyle when you've done what you've done with the credit cards you say that's your perogative it's not your entitlement you don't get to just say I decide to demand it which would be $200,000 which is enough to buy a house outright if I choose to do so that's what this is all about is you wanted to sell a house no honey I just it's not connecting to the wires when I'm not lying and I want to be able to serve you to say that I would not allow you to have the I'm sorry you can't get help if you're going to tell people if you're going to be telling people that I would not allow you to live in one of our properties you're just not being honest it's not that you didn't have any money you were the reason that the cover page it's like a totally different topic but the actual reason that you couldn't move into those houses is because of your sisters I could move into one of those houses I need of rehab we could sell a house I could have one you could have one we could have cash what you're saying you say you can't do it because you didn't want me to it don't like what you're talking about doing is taking your horrific indiscretions of the past many years and take a gap house that we thought we have because of me and using that to cover up to the fact that you know exactly occurred at it off to me that you've done what you've done with our finances and you want to take out to cover it up and you want to blame me for Thursday has it been sold to cover up your indiscretions yeah that's what you were both on Saturdays so we got to agree to whatever we're going to do we both have to agree to it regardless of that sort of thing for raising Rents It would be dead but living in the house it would be for a selling the house like I don't understand I just want you should start loading this is all happening because of what you did with your money everything that happened is what happened but I worked for years I even worked I work as a teacher yeah but do you understand was having to spend a half of my day in a bathroom pumping breast milk while I was six months pregnant like do you understand that you were looking for $30,000 a year doing that but you said that I had to or else you would never be able the launch your career as a house flipper and you said that you would not be okay working at Fidelity and it was not an option for you to keep working and that it was my responsibility to give you more money so that you would have Capital to start your own business like I I did that I did that and I did that that you were working with the teacher we we hadn't had a conversation about me being a house flipper I was working at Fidelity when I quit Fidelity you were not working a telling the truth or not telling the truth you did tell me that the reason that I had to work was so that you could quit your job at fidelity if you had a commitment working when I quit my job when I was having to work you told me the to save up money to be able to quit your job if you are just planning on working at Fidelity forever that was plenty of income we would have lived just I wasn't planning on that ever I wasn't planning on working on monthly started told me that I had you told me that I had to work to give you the capital to be an entrepreneur that's what you told me and that's why I worked and you that you're not fully owning the fact that you took my years of Labor and you squandered them away like I guess I don't that's not what I that's not what I spent all that time scouring and scouring and scouring and scouring foreclosed properties off to help you find a deal on one was for that's not what all my years driving up to Georgia was for it wasn't for you to squander it all away but recalculate your net worth twice a week so that you could sleep at night I'm sorry that you feel that it was squandered away but I will give you all of our assets and I am you trying to tell me that this is just my perception that it was squandered away like you're still not actually dealing with the actual truth okay I did I did earn that money for you and you did squander it away and that equity in a house like they you have to you have to recognize that we have those houses because of me and my parents like you have to own that that was what my parents and I can appreciate it extremely far off and off that's okay with me that you think that I had nothing to do with our assets I do not be with that way I think that it's financially calculable that that's not accurate and being said I'm happy for you to have it all because I meant to be serving you and that's what I wanted my life to be and and all your labor on all of our properties except squander away our wealth and that's that's been through on all of them incorrect that's true on all of them on all of them if you just turned around and resold them without doing the interviewing correct but I like I'm not trying to argue with you about it because I don't think that you'll agree with me and I that's the reason that you're able to life counselor and say my wife won't let me about the diagram that it says completely accurate description of what happened with no it's not well this is why I say we need a marriage counselor no we need you to be willing to be into accountability with real people in our real life who see things more clearly than you do and have never LED you astray not once that's what we need is correct but I know I told you to make a list you can't put anything on the list that actually happened because you have to talk about now completely irrelevant so
speaker 1: I
speaker 2: gave my counselors backyard info as I knew how to do it the time and no and no my dead ends so when I told them did it evolve over time because I don't know if they helped me rise spend a lot of time in contemplation while I was there no trust them as professionals to read our situations and doing everything I can to get as much info continue into the hands of the calculators I can the last time I had a counseling session I asked him are you ready to talk to Aaron you said no doubt it I want you to interact with my counselors and if I'm crazy I want to be out of your life I don't want to make things work for you I'm doing my best to sort through this but if you said she also will not allow Dustin to have any of their other properties you wouldn't happen and it's not talking about it on this call repeatedly by saying we didn't have the money is the reason that I would wager you have it that is no I didn't even say I wouldn't let you have them it's not having the money is the reason that you didn't you didn't draft a letter and bring it to me and say what you asked you repeatedly boss said authorized me to remove a tenant so that I could live in a property okay 1.0 I'll have my I'll have my lawyer get back to you and he never did I know baby I didn't actually actually stop you from doing that you did give you the sign-up authorize a change to our real estate I can't do it on my own know the real estate without me without my authorization but that's illegal well I wasn't going to do it illegally we were in a legal that is not in legal yes it is yes it is yes it is yes it is yes it is I would have done it otherwise it because of the standing Family Law Court order no because we're both on the lease you can't modify the lease without all the parties I'm I'm going to disagree on that but regardless you never brought that says but I couldn't without your authorization which is why I asked for your authorization and when I could get it wasn't able to do it okay it's not a distortion or Ally and you call everything that I see it. I drove this letter asking Elizabeth to make that many many times which how would I be able to live in
speaker 1: you told
speaker 2: me I'll have my lawyer get back to you and you never did okay but you're putting the responsibility on me to do something that's your responsibility I didn't see any preventative permission for me to have one of our houses wage I could have a home so you're saying by me not messaging you in our family wizard and saying you're doing it and then you never did but you know cuz I could never send him giving you know just trying to figure out what happened quit saying that I'm when I'm not lying I'm trying to figure out what action I took actually prevented you for moving into them because you're saying that the onus was on me as active and I need you to sign off on it and ask you to do so repeatedly and you never would you didn't give me anything to sign Dustin I didn't I didn't understand I said which house can I move into I'll go ahead and drop the documents I just need to know which one are you going to allow me to live in I'll have my lawyer get off and every day of a check in and never heard from you on this lawyer I still homeless to live no response from you if it's completely pretend to say that money you didn't stop me from living in whatever it has it's completely pretend I would say we don't have the money you can say oh we did have some money well I could move into it and not pay the mortgage and we could wear clothes I could do the same on your house is the money has nothing to do with it the statement is you didn't allow me to live in one of our houses which was one hundred percent accurate it's not a life that's not one hundred percent accuracy that's not true if you tip Pro did you say that I could live it when I asked you repeatedly so you're saying because I'm not say the words you may live there that you told me you would get back with me and tell me which house I was allowed to live in and then you never did correct are you are you keeping track of how many months you're interrupting me no you're being really rude this is not physical it's abusive you need to not speak to me that way and you need to not interrupt me not okay you're putting me in a situation that I should never have to be in as your wife you should be held accountable by men not your wife you should have held accountable for calling me a liar when I'm not working I should be held accountable for lying when I am like we need somebody to be an Arbiter of reality because we don't live in the same reality and that's a problem and it makes me sad too and I will go to Thursday 2 from now until the end of time trying to fix it or until it kills me which might be but they just called me Portuguese you're being terrible to me please stop so you're saying that by not saying the words you can live in that house over there I was actively preventing you from doing it I ask for your preference about where I would live and you told me that you were correct provide your preference that I could drop the document however you never did provide the preference and you never did provide your service around any day did you file a motion to compel me I didn't see the need to I don't recall actually what motions were filed but I didn't see the need for that because you had represented to me that we would have an agreement about this and regardless month okay but I didn't actually get you back up telling you to record I'm talking about you preventing me from having access to a house yes you did I might be ripping you using my lawsuit pay pay compel you to do something that you're obligated to doesn't mean that you didn't prevent it from happening on your own you didn't say that this is this is this is crazy this is Paige it was obligated to sign that if I was obligated to sign that you brought it down okay to sign it I'm saying that you prevented it by not signing in I didn't have any faith obligated to sign it you're saying you prevent it from reading in whatever has is by being unwilling to sign a document allowing it to have it but there was no document that you never told me where I would be allowed to live which document you with time when I asked you you respond to but that's not what's up buddy that's so you said it said just pick which help you once and that's the one that I'm signing not I think about it and have my lawyer get back to you and then I have your lawyer get back to me at all and not respond when I asked hey we're interested information for the employer this is not my fault do that anybody it wasn't right for you to put me in the position of needing to pick something that would have been terrible. You should have decided that yourself then you should have taken on the full weight of responsibility for how that awful decision was going to turn out did not put that on me if you're going to leave me then obviously I know no reason there's no reason for you to put me a message I was going to live in if you're going to see where was I going to live rep three other men does Sim Where We Belong Where I Belong because we're that floor okay so you're you were just going to keep the real estate for who you off you're going to keep for $1,000 and the state and then move into a single wide and give me nothing in you can just single wide I thought you're going to split the real estate I thought we were going to try to split the real estate but I knew there was no way we could afford to actually live in any of our real estate and you said that you can do math this is not my phone it's not my fault that we're that board none of this is my home can buy a house with two hundred thousand dollars you can live in one of your existing houses if you get a job selling all of the properties and you want to keep the Surly I tell people that your work that you're having to sell them under suboptimal conditions because you're hard-hearted wife is leaving you like the fact is we don't have the money to fix them up to sell them get value right now and use the proceeds to fix up some other ones because of your financial irresponsibility it's so no matter what you said it's going to turn out horrible because of how far you're in credit card debt but you want to make the whole thing look like it's turning out the way it's turning out because that's what you're using yes you are dead to me like if you think it's the number so you can you can when you say that it's my job to pick which one of our offices you're going to leave that was a preferential thing I did for you because I thought that it was very concerned for you and you indicated that you liked that and that you would tell me how long this one I live in and then you never ever ever actually taught me that I was allowed to even half-way just show that we can't afford to live in our own real estate it's not my fault it's not my fault actually I did page just the back of the credit card debt how to get it either from people I didn't work a hundred hours a week to lose money on a weekly basis but I didn't do any of those things that led to this situation being as Bleak as it is and you want to make it look like things are turning out badly because I'm forcing us to have that support to be it would be impossible to turn the page to make you know badly that would not be possible but I was trying to give you control how it would happen to me I don't want to be anything I want I want us to be able to live in the same reality and communicate well with to stop you from living if any of our houses not even the family dropped actually probably incorrect but you could have lived at Stanley Cup 5 I didn't stop you you asked me to live in Stanley Drive and I gave that to you so I was talking about like a different house it does this I should have been living here right now why is really a hard for me to feel like you're a safe person for me to tell what all the lies are off because this is what you're talking about things that aren't lies you tell you about things that I actually true and calling the line that's what the problem is tell me something that is alive and on that but you can't tell our pastor that I'm lying about things that are true and in the problem I need you to tell them that about things where I'm lying what are you talking about I'm talking about there is very clearly significance psychological issues that play between us and I got nothing to do with me dusted I would love for that to be true that I can all be me and I can also fix it myself off but nothing nothing more in the world than for it to all be and if it's only it's totally crazy if I'm totally not I promise I won't leave I've seen lots of psychological professionals that say that I'm not and I'm not taking that to mean that they're right I'm just doing the best that I can become a professional and interact with them if you everything that I say is a lion everything else it's not true I'm telling you specific things that you're right about I'm telling you that you told them that you didn't see anything wrong with your relationship with Julie while they were doing it and not with the line yet you're right I'm sorry then I told them you know what I really did have an affair that's what that's something that I needed to talk about and work on but do you understand that like that at the top of their ability to have the kind of relationship with v that you wanted them to have like they can't bring in your abuser as an ally that makes that's not possible it makes no sense I didn't actually prevent you from living in a rental properties I'm serious about I'm I did I did it we were not going to agree about that and I don't appreciate you saying that I'm lying about it when I'm not lying about it but they suck and that I got her friends to get you to move out of our house and then I got her friends take you out of their house like it didn't suck yes that I was the reason that I was living in the marital Residence Inn so like you couldn't just Stanley Drive so I said yes it's not an accurate that's not why that's what happens what when I asked you to move out of Stanley Cup I asked you to go stay at my parents house you'll recall and you didn't do it so I went and I moved in with the laws but the fact that you ended up in a hotel and I ended up Stanley Drive that was all your doing you make people think I got the McDonald's to get you into their house. I got the McDonald's to kick you out of their house one of those things I don't think that you guys fix almost to let me in their house and I don't think that you got them big kick me out never stop that never said that I'm still committed to our marriage I think so that's just crap. By the way that's what kind of like the whole time you have to understand like there's a contact so that there would be received there and it's not one that gave you a prayer of getting any help that could be true because I was driving a situation to waste a month of my life took the victim of abuse and you got treated as a victim of a second victim of abuse did not check in as affect the values that your wife was the reason that you were living in a hotel and that you weren't allowed to live in any of the where hundred thousand dollars worth of properties that you were working with or last year and were like that's you're a victim of abuse it's not accurate it's not even close to Accurate you could have lived here in this house you could have taken actual concrete proactive steps to live in one of the other houses but it still you didn't you harass me about it and you made me look bad for it and you made me feel guilty about it but that's not a conflict I know but that's the same thing which properties that I would move into so that I could draft the documents with that I have signed them so that I can actually get a tenant wage when when you're the reason it's okay or not okay but that's what happened it didn't happen that's what happened it was your responsibility to make those decisions I could have made any decisions because I need you to sign off on them and you did it you could have compelled me to dachshund that would be making you do something that you didn't do when you told me that you would be willing to and that you'd have your lawyer reach out to me I didn't say I would be willing to but I said have a choice explains a lot better than I could when you were being so abusive to you that you are you telling me that you weren't willing to because that's the entire basis. I don't know I thought the the whole idea of me living in Stanley Drive was insane in the first place because I can know how to do math and I know I can't afford it I know that the whole idea of you know wage no dust in this needs to be a whole week so that the kids could have their familiarity of their bedrooms and stability of these don't say that you didn't say that you did at that moment I'm saying if if if you had been being amazing to be all year last year and haven't done anything wrong while I was at or or even if you had when I was a kid if you cheated on me and I got home and you were just really contrite about it and really understanding of the changes that you needed to make and you you know everything was perfect and you weren't continuing to put Julie's needs ahead of mine and we're continuing to on a daily basis show me how much more important she was to you and how much you cared about her feelings and her reputation like if you weren't doing things but by chance I happened to find out about our financial situation I would have come to you and then like dust and this is really bad we can't keep doing this we are hemorrhaging away thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars to service debt and late fees we need to move into a more affordable house and these are also different populations and judgement calls you just still servicing the debt you haven't sold the house to pay off the credit card so you've made the same calculation that I paid off I'd say that it's somebody was going to pull the trigger and put in the financially devastating position of losing rental income when we needed to be trying to gain rental income you didn't need to make that person be me so that later on you could point a finger and say hey I'm the one who chose for me to live in the basement apartment I didn't I was your choice like you did it need to make on you could have said Aaron oh I'm not going to select a place because I think that's a tough decision but I will sign off on the paperwork like things together you know I'm not I mean but but it's dead dead and it's just like making you sad I don't it's not the reason I was not the reason you were in a hotel dusted you can't get better until you draw the line between the consequences I was not the reason God I wasn't what prevented you from moving into one of our houses I think I think they do the same as that you're making money off magic Lee understandably incorrect that does not negate the fact that I mean for financial decisions off if it's not negate the fact that my brain was not working well it's not going to beat the fact that that had an impact on you that I am contrite for I still sometimes represent committed to trying to figure this out just an I do you possibly between us off accessories you see that listed you need to get everything this is traumatic for me to be able to put in the situation to have to bring these shindigs out to you like you need to get a million to do that for you so that you're not talking about sitting there talking about facts we're talking about fat and not understanding not being able to page with facts which is a few the problem we can't discuss morality of anything until we can get on the same page with that and I said that's not true a hundred percent true I don't know I think we need to I think we should get therapy together and I don't know I don't know any like would take us together but it's not you then it's me but another we need to be able to get on the same page and things like that took you to put me through this don't want you to put me through this before I don't want you to put me through this I want you could do it with somebody else do it with somebody because I don't have this problem with anybody else ma'am they problems with everybody who knows the truth about what you've done but none of them are your truth because they've heard it from you know that's not true they've heard it from you they've seen you I got I got to tell you that's the only way that I could see us being able to walk through this and that's what all of the psychological professionals that you said because we haven't done it together which is the recommendation them because they don't know that's why that's why they say that we need to go together because they don't know off repeatedly to do is together and you know we haven't gone to popular together I've been trying birth I'm the one that I have the blind baking marriage therapist appointment every week I'm the one he's showing up for a very terrible life every week I want to voting myself to that and your God he said over my head like I will do it but you're right you're right I have a haven't gone far enough with setting that up making an intercept last week I don't know if you saw those also I am willing to go to your counselor I don't see that as being great solution for us to work through this professionals I know they don't know that's why they're saying we should go to a couples counselor that we see together I don't know why they made that recommendation if you're right I've been delinquent setting that up. If it's about as feeding the to like a big block of time is extremely accurate and it's a lot of words with that I want you to have peace and comfort package it's my only took the last post peaceful the most comfortable as opposed to it full of my life I'm so happy that I don't speak to you know because you cut out how we could settle our divorce as soon as possible what is so bad to be that's the only way for you to be happy then that's what we will do
speaker 1: I
speaker 2: want the best for you and I always have my not trying to make you sad right now or ever okay okay how would how would we do it I want you to have everything okay so I could have the real estate I'll take the credit card that okay you can have the kids need help with them I can't I don't understand I mean I don't I don't mind like writing up the papers that I'll have primary custody or full custody or whatever but like I don't think it's really reasonable to father children that never be at their life at all I think they should grow up though that you can't doing that you care that they exist I made a recording for them and I don't I'm sure that it's the money that you'll have and they're sparkling wonderful personalities like I'll be able to find them Father I know but they need to know that like you mattered enough to them that you will still spend time with them can I help you I just can't do this so want you to at least have your truck and for you to think about like what you would need to I don't know I know your mom would you do you need to be able to do like your security deposit on an apartment to maybe first and last months were yes you do yes you do that you do you too you have to I mean that's that's an obligation it's an obligation only the father yes you do you have an obligation of the father I'd really like to work things out between us and Dustin we don't have but if you are willing to do it I would go to some inpatient thing together with you or you know I just need to you need to understand about me Dustin is that I'm not broken off and I don't have poor conflict resolution skills and I don't need help learning how to see someone else's perspective I I have practiced all of those things to the full extent that those things can be practiced from the broken I'm not calling you broken I know but I'm saying I function well in our relationship and I will function well in other relationships so if there's things that you need to see in yourself or work on in yourself there for a lot of other people who can go down that path with you no there's not in yes there are there are there are loads of people who love you enough to do that for you suck balls the only way that I know how to fix this it's not because I'm trying to call you broken okay it's not going to fix this I've told you that there's not a fix for this that doesn't include you reconcile in with your church leadership and being willing to be accountable to them and told you that I've never said that I'm not willing to be accountable to our church leadership well then those are the people you should check into an inpatient facility with those are the people you can work through the details of whether it's fair to use the words my wife will allow me to live in one of our rental properties you can work through that with them and they can explain it way better than I can and they wouldn't end up with tears the traumatized by that they much better than me you're not talking you're talking about facts exactly if it's a fact you can talk about the fact with somebody else if I talk about the facts of somebody else they're going to agree with me no I'm saying you could go through that list of therapists and Aaron Bells you can just use him as my proxy cuz he's going to tell you the same thing I would say but it's not going to hurt him the menu can come to a point I think I think you're I think I have significant psychological issues that have caused me to do things that were wrong I know it is not my job it's not my job to suffer me hey it's not your job to suffer and it's my job to own the decisions that I've made that have harmed you and it's my job to own how those have affected you but I shouldn't have to fight to get you to the right conclusions I agree that something that's going on in my perceptions then I need help with that but yeah but it's not I don't think that it's God's given us other people can see it I think that it's also true that you make statements that are factually incorrect
speaker 1: I
speaker 2: don't think that you can actually say that you we're supportive of me having a house to live in when I ended up because I thought it was a wouldn't allow okay wouldn't wage so that's that's got more to do with whether the working definition of allow applies here and there are other people you can support this can work through working with they would not be traumatized by that conversation cuz the way that I'm traumatized by the conversation you're, ties and yes today was horrible for me I'm sorry please stop interrupting me please his most of the time I spend with you is awful for me and asking me to go and talk about this in front of another person would be awful Furby it's awful that you would want that for me it hurts me so much to go that you know what I go through but I have to try to convince you and you to want me to experience that I don't want you to have to experience it that's why I think we need a counselor know I'm saying for me for me to go to a counselor with you that would be really harmful to be with harm I don't have a counselor that I have to go through these conversations about the meaning of the word allow you're needing to see your Sid and you're wanting me to have to a third party of your system or I guess it's just you know 20th better than not talking we're talking about we're talking about a faxed document of text messages and emails. We're talking I know but with the meaning of the word allow its to me is it is a sin for you to go around telling people that your wife won't allow you to live in one of the rental properties and it is synthetic for me to have this conversation with you but it's a conversation that other people could have as my proxy let's do and they can help you see what you need to see and I would be harmed by that conversation but I was just really sad that you want to put me in that position they can I want you to I want to put us in the position we're seems to be happy I called you today because I want to finalize a divorce I don't want to have to talk to you anymore it's so terrible and I even explained upfront why it's not safe for me to be pointing out specific lies that you've told because I've seen how that's gone in the past month how awful you are to me when I point out specific lies and then you cried and sucked me right back into doing it I told you more lies now that I know about it I didn't even I mean I only got the three of them today but your response to each one of them was very odd the exact reason it's not safe for me to do there's so many more gaskets I shouldn't have to go through this none of them were my fault the one anything more in the world than to be what you need that's not true there's a lot of reports to you that that
speaker 1: I
speaker 2: need to change over there and they not going to survive this it's more important to you to make sure that you can say that it's our church leadership fault it's more important to you to say that crystals will search through Thursday I didn't say that he didn't want me so the you said it didn't sound like it would be a good fit well yeah you told him that you didn't see any of your behavior as abusive and I don't know did you tell them that you weren't really thinking that accountability is a good idea for you right now I don't think that
speaker 1: it's
speaker 2: not true you told me that and you told see a that same holds me accountable all the time and I'm always responsive see they said that if you were going to do minute piece little go a long way in rebuilding trust if I could see you building more accountability and you told him that that didn't go well for you last time around and how do you like seem to think you needed to avoid that dynamic yeah with the church leadership yeah and Chris Mullins thing is all set up the basically wage yes say well whatever your wife says is being to be the truth and if you ever questioned it then you're proving yourself to not be a Christian basically yeah
speaker 1: so
speaker 2: there is something that's more important to you no I mean it doesn't mean that it's not important to me it is have a higher priority of this world no that's the same priority the same priority to make sure that you're taking care of well so yeah no you don't have to be accountable to them it's good I am accountable to them no you're not Ella Mae 9 well most recently they asked you to do medefis so they did it no the offered to pay for it yeah you don't think that that speaks to him wanting you to do it I'll ask him if he's disappointed I told him I think I told him about my conversation with Chris and he didn't he didn't say well it's that advice do you want me to call contact Chris and see if I can get in I just thought. Based on my understanding and the program and why he said to me I thought that I needed a better understanding of me being abusive and all the things that he was talking about the other people having done it was like have anything to do with us if you haven't made a hole in the wall Dustin that that speaks that speaks of your high regard for drywall but when he says punched a hole in the wall you can just always pretend he's saying walk outside naked he doesn't say that because most people aren't that messed up but if you change the words punch a hole in the wall to walk outside naked everything he's going to say is going to make sense everything he's going to say is going to be true and everything is going to say wage principles that you need to understand and internalize I tried to ask him I said needs something that if I don't understand how I'm being abusive it could just make me a better husband seem to think that that was what it could be but I'm willing to try to do anything at this point is for you not to go into it trying to figure out how to use what he says to prove that you're not that I'm going to go out well yeah you're going oh he's naming all these behaviors that I have it done you're completely misusing his words if you're saying that I have done yeah but you need to take the payment you have done not take the behaviors these naming but take the behaviors you've done and you know about them because you've done them and package with the context of what he's saying that does your life when you do those things and then you need to say I not only should I need to submit to my church leadership and I need to figure out a way to our church leadership there and Dustin you have it done everything they've ever asked honestly of independence from them because they weren't on the same page on some very key things you were going around know that that is not a should I file for 50/50 custody is not a key thing does my wife have a Biblical divorce you were going around in soliciting that from them does my wife have a Biblical basis for divorce it's not need to fix these are not key things yes you did yes you did on the key things they were completely right you need a full medical and psychological evaluation say you did need to allow me to handle the finances like these were not things you did need to respect my boundaries when I was not wanting you to be you know be around me and follow me down the hallway and stuff like they were not wrong on the key things ever you just got it in your mind that they all needed to give you the same answer about child custody and that's not reasonable and you just got it in your mind that they needed to all give you the same answer about biblical basis for divorce that's not reasonable doesn't seem that long or even Bowl but it's clearly unreasonable destined for you to have an expectation that for men give you the same answer about biblical reason for divorce that's extraordinarily unreasonable it's really absurd if you've spent any time at all in the literature well I have and so have they in they'll have an opinion it doesn't seem like something that's not debatable or pertinent to church leadership yeah but you can't say that if they don't agree with one another that they have no business being church leaders that is absurd ever said that yeah you did you made a big stink about it they weren't functioning at all as church leaders of course they have other giving me advice that would conflict with one another again like if you're going around to them separately and getting different advice about things that's completely okay with different people and they can give you different advice but when they come together and they say we see you doing these things and they're harming your wife and you need to respect your communication boundary handle your finances and you need to get a psychological evaluation those are key things that they're together on and they're right about those are those are extremely functional elders who you can trust they've never even with they were giving you different advice none of it was bad those are people you can't seem to really appreciate them suggesting that I try and get my kids 50/50 in hire a lawyer I would have so much prefer that over what you actually suck I was every day I would wake up and I would think why is he doing this to me why is he still doing this why is he harassing me why is he lying about me why is he making me feel bad why is he making my life hell how does he come up with new creative ways to make this awful for me every day why doesn't he just go and file a motion they weren't telling you to harass should make me feel guilty and make my life difficult to actually did tell me that you had to make all the decisions about the kids but they didn't know say that I'm just saying if you would ask I don't remember I don't have the record right here but they I'm saying you some of that did tell me that that's what leverage that very heavily am saying that I wasn't going to be inappropriate Christian husband if I didn't follow that advice so I followed it now you're characterizing it as abuse so I'm I'm saying to win for losing with them know that you leveraged the advice so right in the message on Thursday when I pick the schedule turning around and crying people that you now never get to see your kids like that was leveraging it against me you weren't doing it in a way that was loving towards me like they would have done it if they were have to dealing with a wife who had left them you used you weaponized bad advice but it's one of them said you should be trying to get 50/50 custody and you just went and you in love kindly filed for 50/50 custody it would have been fine it's if you would have gotten maybe you would have gotten it but it certainly wouldn't have been abusive and just saying none of those men have ever given you poor advice so what do you want from me you want me to let them make our decisions as what you're saying they don't need to make decisions when they come to you and tell you that you're in sin on something you should be looking for a way to integrate them and make them look like they're not to be trusted like the response should be to look at what they're calling you to look at it that moment if they're telling you to look at your working too much then you go home and you brainstorm ways to work class if they're telling you that you need to think about how selfish this is palm oil in your life then you go home and you figure out how selfishness has played a role in your life if they tell you you need to be praying more than you go home and you spend more time in prayer like I'm I'm saying when when people are pointing out real things that are real problem in your life as an individual as a Christian you shouldn't be freaking out going on there saying I'm not a Christian who they they shouldn't be saying I'm not a Christian wage this is extraordinarily wrong for a church to be saying I've got a Christian what do I need to do to prove that they're what do I need to do to make sure that they look bad so people don't believe that that's not the right approach submitting to accountability means taking what they say seriously because they have excellent judgment and you can trust it if you don't trust it 100% off maybe you can trust it 80% which would not be worth it if you could trust your own judgement 90% but at this point I think we can trust your judgment about 1% so you can trade in a 1% on 80% and you're trading up okay I will do that will you do I will submit to our elders judgment I would like us to go to a couple of counselor in addition to that home and I'm not saying that Bell's my my plan was for you to go through men of peace first which would make a couple of counseling much more and much more safe and much more expedient and much less laborious than corrects because a I don't know how many peas can be faithful for me because I don't understand because they're going to spend a lot of time explaining how different things can be healthier to maintain power and control in your relationship that you don't see as being that way because you're a van and then don't have the same vulnerabilities that women have they could have helped you see that I'll try and get in they could have helped you see that making your wife look like she's keeping your kids from you is exploiting of Mobility that women haven't been don't I guess my concern about that is that was my actual perception so how am I supposed to represent this event a piece people because they're trying to get because they're trying to put you in to an accountability model so that you can understand that you can trust the perception of Arendelle as your pastor you can trust the perception of a Pacifica as your home you can trust the perception of see a McDonald's as your Mentor you can trust the perception of me and Allison and Brianna as your wife's Advocates wage if you understand that those are all people whose perception you can trust and you've made a decision that you're going to trust their perception then when you start to have a perception that your wife is keeping your children from you you have a whole list of people who you can go to and you can take all seven of those people kind of those people are all of those people who you have intentionally established a certain kind of relationship with for the purpose of making sure you don't behave abusively toward your life and they can give you a perception that says your wife is not keeping your children from you and you can trade your own perception for their better perception and now you're not an abuser anymore because you proactively established those kinds of relationship all right but you know that you were behaving towards those people in a way that was isolated you from being able to hear their perceptions
speaker 1: I
speaker 2: did not understand what you said maybe one will like if you think about if you think about when we went to see any of JD's house there it it out over there and they gave you complete truth about Julie you understand that that point they all felt comfortable sharing their perceptions with you right yeah you behaved in ways that destroyed that those are no longer people who feel comfortable sharing with you the way that they openly shared with you on that night I did not know that but you have you have that's why you have relationships that you need to repair cut out what that's why you have relationships that you need to repair you've got to figure out what all the things are that you've done that is made Alison maybe be uncomfortable around you or that is made Allison feel like if she says something about you you might use it against your wife or make Alice's feel like you might misrepresent her later like you need to go through all of those things with Allison wage to restore Alice's to having the trust issue that she had back when she sat as true and felt like she could just be honest with you. but you have a lot of people that you have to do that with to repair the damage that you've done to get back to the point where you can have them even be willing to hold you accountable and I think you know I think that's I mean that's where this program would have been worth it for you not for you to sit and listen for specific behaviors that you names that apply to you but to sit and listen to what he says about how you can establish an accountability team and to sit and listen on a heart level thinking about how your behaviors affect your life because your behaviors are going to be completely different you know than the words but he's met me okay I will contact him and see if I can get in okay oh so the other thing I was going to say though is that I was going to say well since you're not doing like Chris bulb if you bought it would be a lot obviously a lot easier and safer and less harmful and hurtful to me if you wanted to just suck to map border for counseling yes you want to do that okay so Chris moles mat board Erin Bell et cetera okay really are you saying yes yes yes all right well I guess you got to call CA first right that would think I would call Chris first I'm likely to get the vehicle three times and we've been on the phone I've been in North