speaker 1: 
speaker 2: this call may be recorded press one to accept hello hey Mommy okay how's it going all right how's it going pretty good I'm working on taxes oh okay on the checking on you see if you're doing a little better I'm doing better and I had to get up super early tomorrow to go to my pre-op or you know pre-surgery testing hi yep surgery again Thursday April 9th thirteen or fifteen or something basically it's a month away and the rule is that your testing has to be done at least three weeks ahead of time really think they want more recent info on you yeah I don't know I'm not a doctor all right yeah that's good and you're getting that done
speaker 1: yeah the
speaker 2: other thing I did yesterday was I sent my doctor crop report to Megan and said oh okay that's good yeah anything thank you well it was weekend right yeah they're not normal even on campus on the weekends right off yeah I think they have to be pretty strict about those kinds of boundaries oh I are Comcast price just keeps going up we're at like $70 at least it seems ridiculous yeah can you hear me I said just keeps going up I think we're like at least at $70 a month and I mean I know that you can get through to the retention specialist at everything but I think that we have been such loyal customers that we're at the point that I'm not going to get it again unless we leave and come back okay just cuz you know the retention formula unless you wanted to go down to like fifteen Meg download speed but I don't feel like that is as wise as switching to ATT an ATT might even have fiber optics for cheaper and I know you've always complain but you can't do without the Comcast hotspots but it's my understand it's my understanding that you can get your hot spots from Verizon just fine and there's no reason that you have to rely on Comcast hotspots yeah I mean I still have my mom's service but you're right you're now should be all right be a good time to try it do you have minimum requirement it's mostly just a decent upload speed but but we're not using that yeah we're not right now so I can't get whatever we need to change it I mean I mean would you rather me go to Comcast 15 Meg download or would you rather me try out a t t l m okay yeah I'm trying it a good time to try it do you specifically already know whether they have fiber optics on our street I don't know but if they do I'd be inclined to try that over regular DSL my office subscription expired and that was really thinking I was going to have to go ahead and buy it again I'm asking you if I just use it all the time but I got a one month free trial for now
speaker 1: I
speaker 2: think before it had the business version that I could probably get the personal version but like a hundred bucks a year how can I use officer I don't have to pay for it off or does that you're probably signed in under my account and it's probably about to drop you or maybe that new computer you got comes with it in which case maybe I can use that to for free a computer might come with a free 12-month like a year or so would that be okay I have to look at it I mean is there a reason you don't like just use Linux at this point um yeah cuz all my financial stuff is on you have to keep the door closed no they use that word yes I see you buddy I love you buddy post or cuz they pick books runs on Windows and I Port data in and out of excel a lot and uh and I use it at work and it works on OS X there's versions that started on Linux that I tried to install on Windows and use instead but it's just not going to cut it for Thursday you for me at least what buddy it's a good job wage wage wage wage yep sorry about that whole planning basically I tried to use the free version and it just doesn't adequate but it goes on within the effects and I'd use it for home and work and on my phone so do all of your co-workers have to pay for the subscription separately if they're going to use it they do a lot of our internal stuff is on Google and you're not considering switching the Google app I think you have to pay for that too and I just as soon stick with office if I'm going to pay for it okay usually companies that size just get it like a group license yeah I think we do have that so you're saying you're saying you could use their Google apps for stuff that's work-related but you would use it for stuff that's personal because when you quit working there yep you know your files and for that that you're going to keep using make sense practical part of it too you have been using the same software my whole life and get it in a new one and try and do something and it takes forever hold on just a second I got that and then it goes to the States but well I watched it from home oh you were you were on the Facebook live stream John Bennett posted on Facebook at Disneyland tweet do the house concerns me encourage you to enjoy the Disneyland experience from your home by eating sugar and inviting a baby over the screen off if you get started just read $300 yes I get back to doing taxes money SU
speaker 1: I'm
speaker 2: sorry did you need something else know it's just yesterday after inappropriately when you were discussing the way that your mom is sharing money with you what did I do wrong well that's odd is that what I'm trying to communicate with you about in Spanish home having genuine concerns or the and my needs and my thoughts and the concerns and the questions instead you had some strong emotions and you allowed those emojis
speaker 1: to
speaker 2: drive decisions about what kinds of things you can say to me sure that I agree with that and when I became uncomfortable with the conversation and that you're going to need to leave instead of saying I have to attend to kind of you today or something that I can do to make you more comfortable with my presence instead he said great and an almost creepy maniacal smile kind of grade and wasn't a sincere kind of great and then you say are there any other false statements you'd like to make about me which is accusatory you made about me I'm just telling you that you demeanor towards me was inappropriate Man Loves a Woman it was emotional later towards me was an appropriate time when they're not lying a lot about your conversations with your world you've had lots of lots of very detailed conversations with your mom and when we talk about the nature of those conversations you're intentionally vague to the point of saying that you have no idea what she knows that you have no idea what she thinks wage when you know that's one hundred percent undeniable fact because I am not her I do not know what you're asking what she said you always I don't know if she thinks I'm not able to hide the nature of your conversations I'm sure that that's like an option is cute little logic game you can play I have no idea. in her mind even though you've spent hours and hours and hours and hours and hours and hours and hours on the phone with her the last six months saying who riffic things about the mother of your children and allowing her to get away with saying whole riffic things about the mother of your children knowing that she's spreading horrific things about the mother of your children to all of your extended family and relatives I have no idea that's true or what see what it said you know for a hundred percent certainty you know I don't know you know based on what Madison texted you know you know based on the Facebook comments that your relatives from Alabama have said you you don't you know that your mother has been speaking to them you know that and you know what your mother thinks about me back cuz she's told you on the phone and she told you a text messages and she's told you an email to her lying to you is that you're being evasive towards me in talking about the make sure I gave you one hundred percent accurate answer to your question it was no line there were lots of things that you chose to send them about your conversations with your mom it was a choice you made having conversations with my mom that's not true there had to have there had to be a conversation or written communication from her in order for you to know what you're allowed to spend her credit card on that conversation happened so you can't tell me that you don't know you could be open and honest what I told you that off to me or you could be intentionally no you did describe the conversation at all you just pretended to magically you pretend it to Matt you pretended to magically know what you're allowed to spend on and pretended that there were no conversations that went into that or related to that in any way what you pretended to magically know what you're allowed to spend money on the magic anything while while refusing to describe to the any of the conversation that led to that being the case that's the truth and you don't need to remember any insult me this conversation and I told you what she said I could spend it on Thursday and then I dropped it out of you I know I was the one who had to keep asking question after question after question to get to the bottom of it when you were giving intentionally evasive answer that I know I was there I'm the one who did that but I'm saying that your decision to be angry at me about it and your decision too emotionally punish me and your decision to be sarcastic with me and your decision to use me that was it was uncalled for I didn't understand that there's a pattern that everything that you do is fine and everything that I do is uncalled for you like I'm waiting for you to understand that but you understand you understand that I am one hundred percent of the problem in our relationship for Seventeen years I understand that you do you understand that for you to abuse me and then soon everything's always my fault and nothing's ever your fault is a manipulation tactic to make me stop and own yourself and it's worked for 711 is not lying I'm not going to say you're right I'm lying when I'm not lying I'm not going to do that to ask you to say you're right I'm not like I gave you examples of what you could say when I am feeling uncomfortable with the way I'm being treated and I could tell you that you probably need to go you don't need to be told me and also told me well if you ever declined to go then that will make me feel unsafe and then that will be abusive took you don't need to smile and say great and then continued to sit there and then finally say are there any other false statements you'd like to make about me like that's not a way to treat a person if you're recognizing that I'm not comfortable with your presence like you could care and be gentle you could understand that wouldn't be asking you to leave if I was enjoying the way that I'm being treated that's that's a pretty important clue I'm sorry you did not enjoy the way that I treated you enjoy it is not that's not what you need to own you need that you got defenses you need to own that you were intentionally evasive with me you need to own that you were wasn't available for you at all. That's what you can apologize for you can't apologize for being something that I didn't do I'm going to do that I am sorry that you you started the conversation by telling me that you starve at work okay so a so the whole conversation is me being a detective trying to figure out what the limited information you're giving me from your answers the piece together the truth that's not how it should be like from the get-go you were defensive about it because you don't want them to have to open how you're spending money and the fact that you have an addiction that is crippling spending money on food Dustin I mean I know you've got to be spending more than $5 on a meal that's insane for that's insane that's that's that's insanely insane to be spending $5 on a meal you're not you're not rich you're not making six figures you're not your mom you're trying to live your mom's lifestyle she's the one making the big money when you have squandered your family's wealth and you were not putting food on the table for your own children you're not able to you're not able to feed your own children right now I understand that there is equity in the houses because of the gift that my parents gave us and the savings that I had from when I was a small child for that first down payment money I recognize that we have significant Investments for retirement and that has been real estate but if you set that all aside and you look at somebody that you've reached there's been so much loss oh you shouldn't be living like somebody who has provided for his family and then has extra on top of that for luxury fast food that's your mom enabling unhealthy impulse buying decisions people who are in the financial situation that you are in should be having to plan ahead and get up early enough to make their turkey sandwich no cheese that just cause and effect sowing and reaping and I understand that you don't want to hear these things that have these conversations and that's why you instinctively clam up and I don't get defensive I don't want to have them because I don't agree with anything that you're saying so may I know that I think the fact that I've already agreed to your $100 things I'm not complaining about how you're spending your money I'm not dead that's not the conversation I was trying to have yesterday but I'm saying that there are reasons that you instinctively start to treat somebody like dirt when there's something that you don't want them to know about there's ways that you treat me poorly when we're on a topic that you don't want to discuss and there's ways that you and actually accusing me of lying when I was not lying I said that because you were not being entirely honest with me an honest conversation I wouldn't have had to drag it out of you you would have volunteered well Mom knows that you know where I made a lot of debt and she just wants to make sure that I've got plenty of spending money I guess well Mom said that I could use her credit card for basically anything I need to use it for but the fact that you were starting off with I started at work like hoping that it wouldn't come out because you don't want to talk about it you were already having a defensive posture toward me and the way that you have abused you know the saying got nothing to do with hiding any of these you were not out to have an honest open conversation with me talking to you like doesn't make any sense I'm saying that your oil change on a dime I was I was trying to be helpful to you I was asking if you wanted someone to help you come up with a shopping list and meal plan I was asking if it's easy for you to spend $100 for the month or if it's easier to have $25 everything was good we will have a team you were open you were loving and then when the topic of what you eat when you're at work came off you changed on a dime to a very different substance who is very familiar to me who shows up wage and free time you feel the fences and every time you're worried that somebody might criticize you don't worry that you're going to criticize me you do criticize me is but I haven't decided ahead of time that you were on the way to you decided ahead of time to be on the defensive these are self-fulfilling prophecies Dustin the problem with our communication was not whether I was going to approve of your spam or whether I was going to disapprove of your spending the problem with our communication is that you were emotionally punishing me and you were being intentionally evasive with me for the purpose of making sure I didn't have an opportunity to Express an opinion about your spending habits but if you don't want me to express an opinion about your spending habits you can figure out a way to be tender and loving and gentle and patient and kind toward key while you explain that and I've been you know under a lot of stress and I recognize that we don't have the money and I'm just so so so so grateful that my mom is dead keep up the impulse spending because just like right now I can't quit vaping too much about your thing well okay then whatever the truth is I don't know what the truth is cuz I you want me to know the truth but whatever the truth is you could you could say Aaron this isn't something that I feel ready to talk about right now can you please just help me come up with the shopping list and I'm not really even up to coming up with a shopping list with you honestly it can be a little bit of our conversations to talking about you know our kids that are finances right now off but you were intentionally ugly to me because you don't want anybody to say that you were whatever I'm saying I had to experience emotional punishment from you and that's not an okay way shape it's not okay to shape your spouse's behavior and trains them with emotional rewards when they're behaving the way you want and emotional punishments when they're behaving the way you don't want because I'm not a dog and I don't deserve that and I've been trained like a dog although since the day I met you I'm sorry I was in tender-hearted towards you thank you would you still like to help me with Stage shopping list I don't feel safe doing that after what happened yesterday
speaker 1: okay
speaker 2: because I feel like over the last month you've been taking all these Jabs at me as though it's my fault that you can't actually predict for your own family and it's by fault that you're supposed to only spend $25 a week on groceries okay that's all right I'll figure it out the truth is you could be spending $25 a week on your mom's credit card at Aldi and I'm scared like that's like a critical thinking type of skill and in a financial planning type of skill at a household economics type of skill you know what I mean to Thursday figure out like how you get the most nutrition without overspending by planning ahead and I think that engaging in those kinds of conversations with you is going to cause you to want to emotionally punish me for things that aren't my fault better just like facts of economics all right honey I will figure it out I know that you won't be to believe that I deserved the way that you treated me yesterday I just said I'm sorry and tender-hearted switch to you I know but you think that I accused you of lying and that was just as bad as what you did and I just need you to hear from me that I don't believe for one moment that I mean so how you're treated these and I don't believe for one moment huh
speaker 1: I
speaker 2: do not understand why you think I'm asking you to do that I think that you've stated many times in this recorded phone conversation that we have right here that I was doing something wrong by saying that you lied that's true and I just want you to know that I don't buy that you weren't being completely forthright with me you wanted your defensive mode and I'm not going to walk around thinking that I need to be ashamed of myself for knowing that you're not completely honest with me I'm not I'm not going to be ashamed of myself when you're the one who's more than capable of telling me what the conversations were with your mom I have told you my conversations with my last so you have it I okay you have it from the beginning you've been intentionally evasive play mom's crazy my mom's getting all whipped up my mom's you know those are all like Impressions that you have but the truth is you're getting your mom all whipped up the truth is you're making your mom go crazy about this like the truth is there's an entire context to all of those long conversations and that context is largely on your shoulders and extraordinarily harmful to your children's well-being all right it's important for you to know I don't agree with you and I don't really want to argue about it it's important for you to know I heard you it's important for you to know that all the stuff that was in the email that she sent to Nathan she couldn't have known without you feeding it to her it's important for you to know about reality I didn't tell her you didn't you didn't you didn't know you didn't you did not there's so much in there that's not true there's so much that you fed her is based on your own delusions oh here in with that email the things that I told her were true. So that's not true that's not true it's not possible for her to have come to that without you telling herself possible okay your mother was of the belief that I would only communicate with you to probe for information to use against you your mom wrote that I refused any contact with you except when I was probing you for information to use against you yes that's an excellent example of something that I never have thought said or given her any reason to think of she came up with that on her birthday she couldn't have come up with it on her own day she couldn't possibly know that you and I weren't communicating she couldn't have possibly known without you telling her that I wasn't taking your phone calls she couldn't have possibly known that I wasn't that I wasn't taking your text like I didn't tell her things actually happened I'm saying that you're making me responsible for her characterization of it when I did not do that that you need to be honest with the fact that those characterizations were going downhill in a way that was severely detrimental to the well-being of your children and you can send you to engage her and you continue to give a person who is extremely dangerous to your children's Eternal Souls you continue to give her information that is highly sensitive knowing that what she was doing with it was intensely and decidedly evil for her to know that you had a problem with communicating to me through our family wizard that's not okay that's not okay it's not it's not you well before that you already knew that your mother was evil well before that you know that your mother was against me well before that you knew that your mother was out to convince you that everything that I was doing was immoral and unethical and wrong and you knew you knew and you still supposed to Tower Aaron won't talk to me and makes me communicate through this out it's ridiculous you were still engaging I struggled with when and what to communicate with my mother but you understand that that's a different issue an idea than what you started this conversation claiming which is that what I was giving her her ideas at any rate I'm sorry I'm sorry that she has been harmful to you into a month to us what she's still harmful to us she's continuing to harm us it's extremely dangerous it's extremely calculated it's extremely active it's extremely evil and it's still happening right now and right now is she thinks like uh I'm sure accurate talk to her let her talk to the kids or anything that you want me to say about that you keep asking me why and I keep telling her I don't know so what did she say when you say I don't know okay I don't know G Pad and stuff will you say that she sat in the stuff Stanley asked me they were like remember a conversation that I never remember it I don't well I never do she has her take over it I can tell you the idea of what it was I can't tell you what she said she calls every time she says I never takes my FaceTime calls you know what she's doing any understand that it is detrimental to your emotional well-being to have to listen to that crap from her yes you understand and that is intentionally evil for her to speak to you that way it is intensely damaging to your ability to respect me as the mother of your children it is intensely damaging to your soul to be allowing somebody to speak that way with No Boundaries whatsoever and it's my mom I can't not talk to my own mother so I just need you to hear this stuff is I need you to hear this okay my mother has been in a position that she has had to speak about you over the last six months my mother has been in the position that she has written some letters about you one was to you back in September and one was to your mom in December in the neither one of those got delivered cuz I took children not to and then we're just just an unbelievably selfless on her part unbelievably compassionate towards you gracious loving understanding in spite of what you've done to me and what you've done to our children and what you've done you know in the way that you've kind of spread things around among a lot of people even given the situation we have right now if my mom ever wrote a letter that was half as bad as what your mom wrote I'm not saying that I'm thinking like maybe half as bad even if it didn't get delivered to anybody even if I just found it and it was a draft and she wasn't even planning to send it to somebody add a minimum I would probably never speak to her again and I'm talking about a minimum there may be much larger repercussions for the relationship between my mom and I beyond me never speaking to her again but that would be the bare minimum wage I would never speak to her again and she is my mother who has been amazing to me there are boundaries that even a parent cannot cross and there are relations family relationships in this world that are far more primary than an adult relationship to their parent it's not okay and it's not just not okay for her to write that letter I know that that letter is evidence of beliefs that she participates in trying to feed you and in being on the phone with you right now telling you how her heart is broken because why can't you speak to her grandchildren is corrosive and destructive to your most primary relationships that God has put you on this Earth to protect against everything I appreciate your sentiment and what you're saying I guess I don't understand why you think that because she says that that I somehow agree with her like I haven't been dealing with your allowing her to continue doing it if she's allowed to get away with something right now I have a control over her she does because you don't have to stay on the phone and then you don't have to take her next phone call and you can't make clear to her the reason that you're not speaking is because she hinted mildly that it's your wife's fault that she's not getting to FaceTime her grandkids and then she understands in the future if she tries to throw a pity party and make you feel bad like the victim of your wife then she loses her relationship with you cuz she doesn't deserve it if she's going to manipulate it in that way honey it's your decision she's not she's she's in that saying something that's not correct you'd aren't letting her face time with the kids and that's certainly understand that's who riffic that you that you think it's okay for her to call you and guilt-trip you about it and try to get you to feel sympathetic toward her that is how long you think it's okay you think that she's not a puppet and you can't control her doing that you think that there should be no boundaries on her trying to emotionally manipulate you when you have asthma you emotionally as you already have it's not okay and you don't have to take it and you should be protecting your wife and you should be protecting your children by putting down trees on that kind of communication and it shouldn't start last month when she was upset about not FaceTiming it should have started way back in September when you first communicated with her about this and she first tried to hint that I was not giving you enough time with your kids I'm giving like that was the day for you to be amazed and for you to stand up and say Mom I'm not going to let you speak about her this way she is Honorable and she would let me have as much time as I need with the children on Thanksgiving Day and she's willing to do what's best for a kids I'm willing to do what's best for our kids and we just need you to stay out of it because you have no clue what's best for our kids if you want to talk to me about my wife that way again then you're telling me you don't want to talk to me at all because that's the way it is I'm not taking it exact should have happened in September and instead of that happening in September you let her poison your mind you've let her sing that you need to do this or that with your lawyer you've let her think that you need to do this or a bath with our house at who lives here you say then and send me all these disturbing threatening messages through our family wizard that are really just awful choosing me of not being willing to work with you it's using me of not being willing to get involved in your counseling accusing me of forcing your hand to fight me and some contract you know contracted legal battle accusing me of not doing what's best for our children accusing me of making up what's the standard plan when in reality of it all these statistics from past court cases and Nassau County I mean that was all extremely abusive Behavior toward me and you allowed your mom to participate in fueling those delusions that made you feel like you had some kind of right to continue that abuse there there are very real repercussions to allowing somebody that toxic to have your ear so what are you suggesting that we're going to talk to her any morning I don't know
speaker 1: I
speaker 2: don't know I'm just saying that like what happened yesterday at our dinner table late it is related and the fact that when I start to like question you know how it came about that she's paying for your Orbeez causes you to instantaneously change your demeanor toward me and causes you to instantaneously become defensive and when I don't deserve to be treated that way like I can see the link that when we were sitting with CA the last time and he was giving you all kinds of ideas about what kinds of boundaries you could set with her and we were both like oh we never thought we had a right to tell her you know. To visit it and it was kind of like a light bulb moment for both of us and he was giving you really nice ways that you can word it to her birthday I'm really appreciating you helping us financially because that's not something we can do for ourselves right now it's such a trying time and I don't know how we would have even made it this far without your financial support but we just need to focus all our emotional energy on our own household right now and I'm sorry but I'm not going to be able to talk to you on the phone but then one time each month it's it's just wiped me out way too much to have to keep that many people in the loop and I'm not going to be able to have you come and visit us more than twice a year and I wish I could do more and in the future we'll do more but right now we just don't have the time or the energy to guess like I thought that was a really good idea and then when we talked not 30 minutes later that same evening about you calling her at first it was like yeah there was like no way to call her tomorrow and then it was I think we talked about it and there weren't even any boundaries we need to set right and it's like facepalm like okay I guess you don't want to set boundaries with her regardless I told her which is what can said that she could call me once a week and that's what she's been doing what else they had suggested that they start coming play know just yeah you told her once a week yeah which is what CA had suggested yeah I've been doing that yeah so I think that's fine I didn't honestly remember limiting her business two twice a year I really don't want to tell her that if she's not allowed to come visit
speaker 1: yeah
speaker 2: and I thought that what we had really said was she had to come bring her gifts on birthdays or holidays I didn't say that should be something in Outback And she said Oh I thought that's what that's what we but you didn't you didn't give her any indication of like how many items it's already stipulated what was stipulated was twelve items a year and you wanted her to have the flexibility to spread those twelve out however she wanted you had never say never said that I know but you never said how many for the birthday and how many for Christmas so if you were making a change that you were going from twelve items a year to be spread out however she wanted to give me to only be given on birthday and Christmas then you would need to say each kid can have exactly two birthday presents and each kid could have exactly two Christmas presents that's it I I didn't understand that you've seen that selected for that I thought the point they have to be delivered on the third day so you're saying you think that your mom is capable of deciding whether she's going to do three birthday one Christmas or what birthday three Christmas or two birthday to Christmas based on her past Behavior that's something you think that she can do herself mean obviously it's going to be up to us to hold her accountable but I think she's capable of understanding the concept so what would you do if she gave one if she gets signed in for birthday presents I don't understand how you hold her accountable for that that comes out of her this is why I thought we were saying that would come out of here 12 and she would to have he left for the year you think that she's capable of doing it I mean everybody's capable of doing that do I think so do it without holding a her accountable know but that's why we have a singer so we can hold her account I just seems like it's very fuzzy standard wage you're getting overly complicated and twelve items a year to be it's fine with me I thought that's what you wanted to have to enforce but not 20 or not an hour after that you were telling her that she could give them matching Easter outfits so that's how well that standard time we talked about it and you were saying that you could plan to have them I have nothing to do with any of this I did not say I would be glad to have them I said that I am in your ear that she had them and I was curious if you'd like to you it's always going to be up to you and I will never way in because that is toxic and your mom has been stashing me to your extended family for years over your gifts and Thursdays and that needs to stop it's not okay it's not okay for you to participate I know but you see her ask me an Outback whether I would like Easter outfits you don't sit there and let her describe them to be in detail where the chambray is. Her and you say Mom this is not appropriate for you to be trying to go through Aaron on gifts are children when you know that I'm the one who set boundaries with you you asked me in the car I told you I think about it you don't need to bring Aaron into this because I know how you try to blame things on her that have nothing to do with her it needs to stop this is my wife and you're not going to do that anymore thank you thank you hi honey I'm trying to do a better job of shielding you from that I honestly am starting to question whether we should have let her to town and spend time with me after what she did in that email because I know there's no way for that email to have just been jumped up overnight you know what I mean and and we have long-standing you poor opinions of you or I'm saying that when you read that email you wrote Nathan this is actually mostly all true LOL it doesn't mean that I know but I'm saying there's no reason for me to believe that that General sentiment I mean you take the whole thing as a whole right the general said Erin is emotionally abusing and manipulating Dustin Erin is trying to ruin dusters oh yeah it absolutely does absolutely suck not making it didn't say that that's my mother is characterization of you is not mine I know but we can't get around the fact that you read it and you said that it was mostly true and we can't get around the fact that all the information that she used to come up with that characterization came directly from you and slowly from you and we can't get around the fact that you had been spending hours and hours and hours talking to her about this situation for the three months prior to her writing that characterization we can't get around that that's that's what actually happened
speaker 1: I
speaker 2: have not been talking to her for hours and hours by day that's not true that's not true you have been talking to her from out for hours from September I don't mean on a single conversation I mean cumulatively from September through January there was hours of communication and there was hours of you characterizing me to her and her characterizing me back to you that were building upon one another and culminated in a female to Nathan and I think that for you to say that I was manipulating the church against you I think that that is but that's consistent with what doctor crop put in his report about you that you said that's Doctor crabs characterization of what I said I didn't say that you manipulated the church against to be and I've never thought that that I convinced the McDonald's to keep you out which is completely false and I never said that or thought that or anything like that but that's what doctor crop. Well you're talking about an hour long conversation where had to get a lot of info and got that wrong I don't and and I you said that like relative to your conversations with head you know it was pretty obvious that we were all convinced off each other that there was something wrong with you psychologically yes that is accurate that's it's not you know what I'm saying it's not accurate it's just not I don't it's not it's not it's not and I you know I just sent that you struck upon that I've actually said where we probably do have a disagreement but I know but lately you've been trying to convince me that she can accuse you of having a psychological problem in front of me and I actually my I know but I'm racking my brain and I'm going you know what know I brought up you know psychological concerns and be right in front of you he said that I mean you know it's true that you know psychology has its merits and things like cognitive behavioral therapy can be of use but the you know the heart of the matter is this is a sin issue and God's grace is sufficient and you have to lean into Jesus when he was he was consistent with that so consistent well I don't remember the words that were said I don't remember that sentiment at all that was it was non-stop that we it was non-stop after week after week month he was so consistent this is the same problem you're blind to your spin you've been in since so long to get this why we have other people in our lives to help us see what we can't see and this is all within the context of a time when you were actually lying about your sin and you were actually unwilling to turn away from it it was that's all how it went down it wasn't till mid-December I I was scared to even say it because I knew that he doesn't he doesn't you know he doesn't think that we should be turning to psychiatrists and psychologists well what we really need is Jesus and repentance I was scared to say it but it was mid December when I fire was like at this point do you think that he might benefit from like like a real psychologist and he said oh he said I didn't I hadn't even told you yeah we that was in the letter from the elders we've asked him to get a full medical and full psychological evaluation and he says that all of that I don't you know know exactly what would come of that but you know Dustin absolutely there's some things that you know we haven't understood about how he's going about things but for you to characterize that we were like feeding that to each other or he told me that or somebody was trying to accuse you of something else I mean I can remember when it happened I was additionally alone with him in conversations where it was discussed it's just not something that is going to change its there I don't I mean like I can remember I can remember like when you would lie about something that you had said like two minutes before and and I would always ask when you accused me of that for me so I know the author not a single person would be willing to characterize am not sure about it that's not what I'm saying I'm saying that we quoted you like verbatim on words that you just spoke cuz it wasn't like a new topic it was like within the same sub topic of a conversation in 2 minutes and you just immediately said I'd ever said that because we were trying to like question its validity cuz it made no sense and as soon as you realize it didn't make sense you say I didn't say that and which which made sense that it wouldn't make sense because it didn't make sense but it's like it was bizarre because we were all there and just turn just say it and it's like when and then you would say we've got we all heard you say it and you'd say I know Thursday I didn't say that and and we're like that you always say that you forget if you forget so much how are you you know you're not forgetting and he goes well with somebody says that I said something I just think does that sound like something I would say and if it doesn't sound like something I believe or would say that I know for sure that I didn't say it and you were like okay that makes sense accusation against me almost every time we talk that makes sense to you but for those of us who just heard you say the words that make any sense it's I'm not making an accusation I'm just telling you that it's it's what happened so is that one of those moments you know we're going this is that really makes sense I don't know if that's what you're saying it's a little ironic that you accused me of that all the time or you did and now that we have our conversations on a recorded line it's not an issue between us that's not true. I just told you about when you told when you initially told me I haven't gone to any restaurant but we have a recording of that still like there's been dozens and dozens of times we were there was confusion over the dates and no nope nope you said I haven't gone to restaurants and you had been going to lots of restaurants and no there wasn't confused pastis. If you know that's not true you're also going to Taco Bell in Arby's you don't need to say that that was the only restaurant you went to just because it's the only one that you charge out the account that had your money for gas at it you were you were also going to restaurants every day on your mother's money but you wanted to make the statement I haven't been to any restaurants and I have to say no you have spend restaurants you been to lots of restaurants and then you wanted to complete the whole situation by somehow getting confusion about what date it was what day did I go to Tasty's I don't know what day you went to Tasty's I just see a charge here that says the 24th oh well that's impossible you're accusing me of going on the 24th and I couldn't have gone on the 24th I was at work. I said I'm not accusing you of going on the 24th when you say I went you were creating a diversion by tricking me into naming the date that it showed up on the card when all along you knew you into the day you're trying to figure out the date so I could tell you I right but you knew when you went to pacey's that you had been since you obviously knew that you were on a budget by see a because they put you on the budget on Monday and years went on Tuesday and tried to only spend $100 on groceries at Publix and actually accidentally went over $100 at Publix and then you went to Tasty's on Wednesday knowing that you've already over budget for the month I don't remember that that's what I have on me about the date but I have a phone recording in which you said I haven't been to any restaurant cuz I didn't remember Aaron Smith Restaurant every day not just Tasties you were using your mom's money to go to lots of restaurants you she had given me a gift card I guess I don't really remember this I so that's I'm just saying that went obviously talking about the budget not knowing password I have the phone recording Destin I thought you were concerned about whether I was sticking to the budget you did you said I haven't been to any restaurant when that's not true that does that you say words like I went to Tasty's before we spent the budget when that's not true it doesn't mean you say words like going to take you back to me on Monday and I couldn't have gone on Monday when it's not true that I had accused you of going on Monday like we have the recording and you were just saying whatever you thought you needed to say in order to not have any ownership and the truth is if you had not even think that I don't understand because I have I've gone back and I've listened to the recording I've listened to it yeah I obviously I got confused about the days you not remember going to Tasty's when I already had a budget and I don't remember doing that has changed the fact that you didn't and it doesn't change the fact that you told me other lies with other lies in addition to somehow completely forgetting that while you knew you were on a budget and all ready whenever your grocery budget went to taste he's off like it doesn't change the fact that you told me other lies are you talking about going out to other restaurants yeah you said I haven't been to any restaurant cuz we were talking about the budget Aaron I wasn't using our money to go to those restaurants out she said I haven't been to any restaurants it's shorthand for having a pertinent conversation you're asking me about our budget okay well that's that's not how anybody else I can medicate with the truth nobody else thinks that they say words as a form of shorthand everybody else I can do to Kate with uses words on the basis of whether the sentence they make make is truthful or untruthful how does a lot less confusing to keep up with when you just say what you mean and you just say what actually happens instead of trying to come up with some form of shorthand that only dead comprehend any comprehendible it is because you are translating I didn't go to any restaurant which is an untruthful statement in your mind you're translating it to something I didn't go to any restaurants spending money out of my spending budget from our joint funds only you could know the rest of it off other people they only hear the shorthand so they only hear the actual words you said which are actually not true okay I'm sorry and yesterday you told me I started that work I do then you go to our views apps use feels like you're starving I'm dying I feel so sorry for you that you didn't have the foresight to go to Arby's 30 minutes sooner I mean you're trying to paint a completely different picture than reality
speaker 1: hold
speaker 2: on a second and you are being extremely manipulative in saying oh you always accuse me of saying something I didn't say or lying about something I just said and don't you find it ironic but that's not happening now that we're recording our conversation like you want me to question my own reality of what I experienced I have to be on the same page so we can get along all I want that we offer says that we have recordings already of you admitting that you were in a prolonged state of deception and lying and denial from July off all the way through January and then in order to account for one line you have to tell another lie and then another line and another line and it just became this Fountain of Life on the basis of you not wanting people to know that you were cheating on your wife like that's the context in which I'm saying we were in Aaron's office and you denied having said something that you just said 2 minutes ago it was during that time. When you've already been acknowledged that you were deeply committed to trying to deceive people about our sin because you were scared of losing your security blanket relationship so you don't need the gas light me into thinking oh I there's something wrong with me I always imagined that Dustin's lying but look ever since we started recording our conversations wage I don't make that accusation anymore I must have really been just making it up all those times and they like that's not it's not fair for you to put that on me that's not fair for you to Gaslight me in that way the access that lying a lot a lot you were lying a lot that's the actual truth lied I lied about my feelings about Julie there were twenty thousand lies on top of that that had to in order to support that line there were lies about pepper there were lies about your money you're spending they were lies all over the place they were they were lies and and there were very often lies about what you just said cuz you were trying to defend the indefensible and that was a really awful thing for me to have to live through like nobody deserves to go through the trauma that I went through from July through January nobody but now you're trying to Gaslight me to convince me that I imagine half of it ma'am doing that you want me to believe that I make up that you were lying when you worked you want me to believe that I make up that you just said something you didn't say or didn't say something to just did something that's not fair to me that's not fair that's gaslighting like I experienced what I experienced and when I have when there's three of us in the room and we all heard you say the same thing and not enough time in fact for all three of us took any of us to reasonably have forgotten that that's psychological abuse for you to ask me to question reality that we both experienced together you guys are characterizing things as being untrue that we're not in true it's no nothing to do with putting you on Monday and you deny having set it and yeah it's related to Julie and so you sometimes you have to say something to defend your actions with Julie but then when your question and press on them you realize doesn't really make sense to try to do that and so then you have to backtrack and sometimes the easiest way to backtrack and say you never even said it but maybe you actually convince yourself that you didn't say it because uh I don't actually believe that I would never do something like that that says now that it's been questioned you can see how it doesn't make sense and it's not something you believe in something you would ever say again so maybe you convince yourself you couldn't have said it because it's not true but that doesn't change the reality that the people who heard the words come out of your mouth have it is not fair to expect people who heard the words come out of your mouth live in a fantasy world where they are expected to behave as though you didn't say it and believe that you should say it that's not okay and that was my living hell for six months and now you're getting me to stay there and now you're wanting me to put on myself so yeah you wanted me to have some kind of shame that I make it up you wanting me to use the fact that you're not lying constantly anymore as a way to make me think that there was something wrong with me for thinking you were in the first place no I'm trying to tell you that I'm not lying about something that would rely not a lot less and I appreciate that but that shouldn't be used to make me question my own reality that shouldn't be used to shame me into thinking oh that doesn't like very much now so I must have been making it all up in my mind before that's not fair wage it's not the same you are you're saying isn't it ironic that since we started recording our phone calls you don't have this problem anymore off as though I was the one who was causing that to happen before I mean you did for that too I did not mean for that to imply that all of your historical concerns where invalid and I apologize okay I don't I don't know what you possibly could have it by it but it was inappropriate I love you I love you too there's just not a future for us together with you making up these things about are at though making anything else I know you're going to say well I can't pretend that he didn't that used to be a headache psychological problems what I know he did and maybe he talked to you about stuff like that after I had moved out of the house and stopped feeding with you I don't know I wasn't there for those conversations you're still out of the house yeah but I mean when I let them contact it wasn't you know when the more than three weeks later I know I'm saying that when I was in his office with you and Allison in him all my Recollections of psychology coming into the conversation he was cautiously dismisses of in that he consistently pointed us back to the gospel I never said you been playing this back to the gospel I don't remember a time when he said there's something that's been psychologically or something even like along those lines I can remember that you know got desire the firemen to that you routinely would say you're lying or misrepresenting something when I have misrepresented something off constant constant constant so you you were actually lying a lot there may have been times where we thought one thing was a lie when really the opposite of it was a lie but you can't blame the people who are being lied to for not building which one's the truth you are contradicting yourself quite a bit of them for calling you a liar when you're not lying think thank you very much. You saved you were lying so much so if you lie about one thing and then you say the opposite of it and we accidentally think one of those is alive when when that one's deserved and we should have thought the other one was the light I mean that's not our fault you were you were just lying a lot it's nobody's fault for not knowing which part was the truth when you're lying and contradicting yourself I'm talking about cases that kind of thing myself and talking about I'm talking about people making it assumptions that were not stated by any party I don't know I don't know what you're talking about the truth is Dustin that you were abusing me you were emotionally manipulating me you were harming me you were being callous toward me you were hurting me you were gaining me for things that were that I did not deserve to be blamed for you were contradicting yourself like all those things were happening and everybody around you was responding as graciously as anybody could respond to that dynamic you were given so much love you were given so much patience you were getting so much kindness you were given hope you were given more hope you were given more hope and you were given more hope and if every once in a while somebody thought you were saying something that was a lie and it was actually true I don't think you can blame that person I think there's one person who would be responsible for it coming to that and that and the entire substance of all of our conversations with them know that's not true you were being encouraged to turn to God you were being encouraged to accept accountability from other people you are being encouraged to read the Bible you're being encouraged to spend more time with your family you are being encouraged to turn away from relationships that were distracting you from your marriage you're being encouraged to change your work habits to a few more time to focus on your family you were and in all of those things you were twisting things around back on me like you were being encouraged to be more like kind and thoughtful you were being encouraged to stop blaming things on me that weren't my fault like there's so much going on and it ever returned you were just not making a lot of sense you were raised in a pathologically defensive mode I can see now looking back at it I really think there's only one person who can take the blame I mean for all the I don't know what you say like the name the confusion and the not knowing what to believe that everybody was experiencing like I feel that's they feel like that's all on you and if if if in your meetings alone with Aaron he did say like I do think that there's something going on with you psychologically off at this point I think you and I both objectively can look at your clinical records and say okay at that point in time that was actually Fair all right honey I got to think about that before I respond to you yeah I do I know we've had the I think about a lot too I just want you to know that lately I felt like you're throwing it back at him in both directions like one minute you'll say is the professional that he didn't get me too mental health professional Suitor because I should have been dealing with a licensed person and then you'll turn around the next minute and say he was unfairly accusing me of having a psychological problem that was unprofessional and like essentially again like taking all the best things about I know I'm saying you're playing like compatible no no I think those are good that you're trying to cast him in the worst possible light bulb and in reality on both ends of it they both polls there represent I think the highest level of Integrity that that somebody could display in that City or you know how long he was not quick to try to give any analysis of you that would be outside of his you know knowledge or ability to comprehend and he pointed you like towards the wisdom of the Bible and towards Jesus you know ahead of towards just pathologizing you off the bat and when the time came that he was concerned for your mental health needs and concerns for the decisions that you are making and thought that there needed to be additional expertise like he encouraged you to seek out that type of pebbled I mean that's like that border says like he goes I I don't think that I've ever envisioned myself saying this about any church but it sounds like they actually know how to navigate something like that I I think that it I think that is extremely extremely rare extremely rare for a pastor to be able to do that well with something like what we were presenting to him and my I have an ask him but my assumption is that he was probably having to consult with some of his professors to know what would be the right direction to please you but anyways for me I think my feeling has been that for a while now the aim has been to disparage like the way that arid counseled you I'm not disparaging I talked to zero people about this know I mean to me it's to me because what you're pursuing right now is you're pursuing a relationship with me in which you don't have outside accountability the country so it's true it's true because for me having outside accountability like knowing that you're a safe person for me to be with like that doesn't exist outside of you admitting that all of the guidance that Arabelle gave us was professional and appropriate and showed excellent discretion and he's a person that in the future we will trust his guidance and his judgment like that's a necessary for me I'm not really prepared to talk about this for the right now but thank you for sharing your heart with me you're welcome it makes me really happy love you let me see really happy too then take my medicine to that oh what does that mean I don't know they didn't tell you I guess protect okay for that cuz it stays in your system more than some of the other ones but right not supposed to not take it though I mean like are you if you take it down or you still okay to take it in the morning when you normally would tomorrow I think so yeah okay fill my prescription again and every time it's like 5 pill bottles so it's like I got so bottles coming out of my ears right now they have to like solid at them but I'm like hi consolidate them to the new models they're the old bottles probably the new there a downside to that not if they don't screw it up I would like to consolidate why I don't want the 15 models to start to your every morning trying to figure out what I need to take all the ones that you don't need yet and I would put them in like a game that I would not I would not get out the next bottle until the old ones empty and if thrown it away so you essentially you have what you like on hand what you need every day this week and then you have like a you know X or reserve for what they run out sounds good in theory but I don't exactly have a lot of storage space okay buddy thank you for telling me and then I'll put something else on okay yep 15 in Supply Santa please don't yell at me thank you 15 15 maybe you can clean up the living room or something that Disney Plus password I don't know if I can't work I guess you don't really need to be watching movies right now anyways you no well so far I don't like it I was going to say the one that does all straight that raunchy craziness now yeah and you know I don't have the kids pick whatever and hold on just a second yes so what I did was when I first went on I just added everything that I did to lock to watchlist so when I open when I open it up they don't have to see all the garbage that is being featured I can just click on watch lists and they can just see like the month whatever 40 things that I've picked out and they can pick from that that's good but like today I let them watch something that I had put on the watch list that looks like to me it was like sequel to Beauty and the Beast yeah and like I didn't approve of the content at when I heard them watching it it was like Lumiere was planning his five-month anniversary of his first date with a feather duster and yeah oh yeah it's like he ended up getting bail to like health care plan how he was going to express his feelings and he had this whole romantic evening planned out and everything will somehow the feather dusters like I don't know what she saw she's Knocked Up and song when they are getting ready for bed and Bell was there and so she thought that will be able to cheating on her with them and she's like she's like crying and screaming this was supposed to be my choice special site how could he for her you know ridiculous shows what was that the thing that didn't seem like they get you to trust their brand new age you know because like you know the Beauty and the Beast yeah and it kind of it lulls you into this false sense of safety let us not face seriously like this stuff these places like possibly that was appropriate for children the stuff that they might like the Disney Channel now but it's disturbing Beyond disturbing like really really blows my mind that there's that much demand for that it's just yeah yes you would think like in a free market there would be some sort of self-correction but I guess people like legit like that and not the other parents aren't even like taking shows out like you know like like the whole like Amazon Freetime is you subscribe to free time you can just hand it over to your kids it's all dead screen it's all kid appropriate song oh man I want to think about what you said oh good thanks you so happy should probably go so I can take my medicine before I forget do you need a pill sort do you need a pill sorter I use a pill sorter hi makes more sense and going through all of them every day huh oh definitely like I just opened up that day and I just flip it over and they kind of so do you have do you take them all at the same time of day or do you have a p.m. dose no I have something I can take it p.m. but I don't usually I might I might start I've been waking up in the middle of the night cuz oh you have before bed stuff yeah so I'm just going to throw this out there is there any medical or scientific reason that you've been given that you should be sleeping through the night yeah Napoli I can't speak authoritatively on this but basically they my understanding they figured out like your rims fleet has a lot to do with them moving memories to yep like long-term memory and processing experiences that could be that why my memory so bad is that I haven't been sleeping well 6:00 wake up would not necessarily interfere with a rep pattern that 3:00 wake up would simply mean that you've completed one REM cycle and once you go back to sleep you're going to enter a new Rim cycle maybe you know what I'm saying there's I don't know that there's evidence that a middle of the night wake up I mean it can't it can't be interrupting a cycle that's not how the Cycles work you know I'm saying the nutrition gal Honey Lake said that the very very end of your sleep cycle if you sleep through the night is where you get like it's just restful sleep so if you go to sleep like I forget what you said something like if you go to sleep an hour early it's equivalent of getting like 2 and 1/2 hours of actual sleet because you accrue that at the end that's absolutely true but that is a a context where you're presuming that alarm goes off at 5:30 a.m. right so that you would be like an external source to wake you up in the middle of the cycle yeah but I'm doing that the natural biological wake up like your body weights itself up whether it's in the morning or whether it's in the middle of the night that natural wake-up is it indication that you've completed the cycle Maybe and I say this because of my you know mother-infant sleep study analyses okay and it seemed like you're falling asleep well early in the evening like you would ever have in the past yeah so I'm happy that I just mean overall if you're able to put away your electronics in your able to get in bed by 9:30 and you're able to lie down even if you don't actually fall asleep until 10:15 and even if you have one wake up in the middle of the night that's still good rest yeah you know what I mean yeah that doesn't that doesn't strike me as something worrisome that you need to medicate over don't you remember do you remember that article from a couple of years back with all that anthropological and literary evidence that it used to be considered universally normal to wake up in the middle of the night for like forty-five minutes did you read that one is it it had all these examples from like letters that people wrote each other like two hundred years ago and books that people go like two hundred years ago like they even they have terms for it like they would call it first sleep and second sleep and they would like when they woke up in the middle of the night they would like light a candle and like read a book or they would like that would be a time but they would like talk to their spouse about what happened before it's like Bond and Converse and it was just like completely expected normal part of life because it doesn't everybody wake up in the middle of the night interesting yeah and I think it was only after in the invention of electricity that the invention of electricity caused us to start staying up past like Sunset like you would get dark outside and we just stay up because we have electricity once you start doing that you're having to condense your need for eight hours of sleep into 8 hours right whereas before electricity was invented if you're going to sleep because the sun is down you don't need to get all your eight hours of sleep at eight hours or else you'd be getting up at like 4 in the morning unnecessarily so you can sleep from like 8 p.m. until 1 a.m. and then wake up for an hour and then sleep from like 2 to 6 and that seems to possibly be like how your body was designed to work yeah you're right okay the trick is when you wake up are you able to be there with your own thoughts without having to get out your phone I mean I Oh you mean in the middle of the night yeah about 3 a.m. yeah you feel like you just lie there for like an hour yeah or less so cuz that that honestly honestly doesn't match seemed like an extraordinary really healthy thing to do maybe in between your web Cycles is like consciously think of your memories that you're moving around and consciously processed the things that your brakes been working on while you've been sleeping I'm remembering more during like you know what I mean from 3 a.m. to 3:30 a.m. and then you'd be able to pray if you try to do it like when you went to bed at 9 p.m. because you don't mean your brains just more relaxed during a table I don't know that's just my thinking yes is married appreciate you yeah who's smarter me or Megan you're in Megan yeah probably is
speaker 1: I
speaker 2: guess her has been does something at the church of eleven22 yeah just for me today hi Lucy came in and she looked real suspicious find the Cure t e r he lifted up she lifted up the blanket by my feet and she slid a paper under she said the paper under the blanket. And so you ran away but it was a crazy advertisement like it went off wow like to show you kids don't play instruments music la la la rouge that's awesome yeah I guess she was totally bought into the idea of this is the Lord space if we're dead for a change flipped it in by your feet
speaker 1: oh
speaker 2: man they're funny oh yeah all right so it sounds like you could use a pill sorter it sounds like you don't need p.m. slot on it you can yeah you know she's the the p.m. pills you can keep it like convenient location if you think that you're going to need them a couple of times a week yeah but it's interesting that you go leave without needing a bit all you could put it at The Archives or whatever you want to call that wherever you're going to keep your home extras of stuff you have it run out of your first bottle of yet yeah so how many pills do you take each morning I'll get you a new order I think I'm up to four now before and vitamins though a large no they're not super light or the vitamins the gummy ones are the vitamins it's hard some other words cuz I don't know how well I don't know how well the gummies will do if they're in they're up against like capsules and tablets and stuff get the moist okay that's all right just because the 14 or small two little ones into medium one okay all right I love you hey Dustin can you just finish the taxes to like just be done I'm trying I started playing faster industry with it okay I think I might need TurboTax business 2019 though I didn't remember that took 19 you need what TurboTax business 2019 I thought I didn't need it cuz I thought it was all wrapped up and 2018 but he ended up and tax each oh yeah oh definitely hey how's that talked to you about that this week no I think he wants to cuz he's filing itself you know should be able to do that I think 4:20 we might need to be married filing individually why I think that's what I put I would like my Medicaid applications that I would be doing do you know anything specific I need to look into about that is it seemed visit impossible with the joint rental income that's true it'd be a lot more work I wouldn't worry about it actually I know that there's tax disadvantages yeah you're saying your life ultimately yeah okay all right I'm going to get back to work I love you