speaker 1:  this call may be recorded press one to accept hi hi a concrete floor let me get further away sorry I think you're not getting a paycheck today Shelby she kept getting the paycheck when it stopped working yeah I think they paid me like my vacation for the year and plus my sick days or something that means you don't have any vacation this year probably not okay well do you have the login info for your pay stubs no can you get that I can try later I kind of busy at the moment so that would be a convenient time in one Fell Swoop to get your life insurance deduction off what I thought if you were getting off the contact the office you could ask them to remove their life insurance to the auction I'll see I don't know if it's allowed or not and then are you going to be able to get your retainer back I don't know so it's actually working out between us what's the dynamic set up that you're going to do everything because it's what I tell you to do can you say that again I did not understand like we have set up where you're going to do whatever I tell you to do dynamically set up that we have set up the situation where you said I'll do it I'll give you everything you want I'll do whatever you say it's not actually a good plan it's not working it's hard because like I told me yesterday and you're taking things that I'm telling you to do and you're acting like the reason you're doing them is because I'm telling you to do them when the reality is the things that just flat-out have to be done because of the situation you created and so if you get out of taking responsibility for the situation you created in the fact that the stuff has to be done by pretending that is your wife making you do it and that's the only reason you're having to do what within the conversations where I you know communicate those needs to you I'll try on horse you know you're doing what you said you do I think that you're exerting back at me a lot of the same types of manipulation can you say that again I can't understand you set up the time the one you have to tell you what to do and you're pretending I'm I know I'm I'm trying to tell you that it's not working well and what you just said was a great example of blame-shifting literally what you ask for I know but that's not what this conversation is about this conversation is not about trying to make a claim at somebody speed or point fingers and make somebody feel guilty or say the situation is in salt and not dead but that's not the point of the conversation I'm trying to talk to you about our situation and our Dynamics and why it's unhealthy so that we can work toward making it healthier that's what the point of the conversation is so I'm trying to explain why it's not working and you're trying to make sure that I get blamed for it not you you don't need to say I thought you asked for like I'm having a conversation about life not a good set-up don't feel like it's exactly what I asked for I do feel like I told you what said said which is that if you want to remain married then you shouldn't be arguing and you somehow warped that into making me the scapegoat for every responsible decision that needs to be made but you certainly haven't stopped arguing so if certainly managed and you haven't stopped arguing month and this is the same thing that you've literally always done that's called blame-shifting in arguing and Shifting the blame for things that I'm not responsible for shifting in and when you do it it's not called that was just calling to tell you information not argue with you but I'm trying to tell you information about why this is an unhealthy relationship Dynamics and why I am still being used by you I'm not trying to argue with you everything that you don't want to have happen it's abuse and late shipping and it took fifteen yes that is that's what you're doing right now the instructions that you have asked me to follow is abuse and blame-shifting and am currently doing and you're definitely still absolutely you definitely are and it's because you haven't gotten to the root of what causes your abusive Behavior in fact you haven't even repented of your abusive behavior in fact I don't think that you've even taken the the very first micro step in recognizing that the way you treated me over the years and even recently is abuse so there's no reason to think that you're going to stop doing it when you're not even recognizing it for what it is so that's the reason that this isn't working out and you're certainly not actually doing everything that I'm telling you to do you're certainly not getting a retainer you're not getting your retainer back from your attorney you're not you haven't stopped arguing with me so don't say it's fault when it's definitely true you're only picking and choosing things that you know have to be done anyways because of the fact that you've made irresponsible financial decisions in the past and your latching onto exclusively those things that you have to do anyways and using me for the excuse for why you have to do that ma'am I'm the one who's controlling you and then you're taking the things you don't want to do and not doing them and you're trying to make me look bad for asking you to so you're it's definitely not everything is it anybody about anything I'm not talking about I'm just talking about yourself yourself there's a lot of self-taught going on here with a lot of stuff talk talk self-talk self-talk you didn't learn about self tops Talk self-talk they don't to pop self-talk no Clinic know what do they call it doesn't teach self-talk I don't know what you're talking about what did they call what do they call the the messages that you give yourself off I don't know I don't I don't know either but you're certainly not seeing a therapist and you're certainly not bothering to show up have my therapist set up for next week okay so your statement is false you said you're not seeing a therapist speak to me that way it's done everything that I can to get off their best including setting it off at the first available opportunity speaking call statements when you say you're not seeing a therapist that's rude and argumentative you can't blame me for being the one who argues when you're the one who argues is not my fault that you argue and you only Define things of arguments when they disagree with you and if you save them they're not arguments true and instead of saying that's true it really took me a long time to get that set up I'm glad that I finally got an appointment expected but if you want to argue with you say that fall off the one who aren't used for no reason the only thing that ever started the whole do whatever areas does was me and Ted saying that if you want to be married to have to give up the arguing because it's fruitless you're not actually getting anywhere with it you're not accomplishing anything he meant both of us are in not we do literally whatever Aaron thinks of the things you do and that's it has no life or break or opinion ever that's not what you meant he did he instead of having to pick up we can having different thoughts and that could be okay we don't have to walk you think the same thing and argue until that never happens because we're not ever going to think the same thing about everything is what we're thinking is the behaviors okay and I'm thinking that your behavior is not okay and then I decide that I can't live this way because it's definitely abused and everybody who sees it agrees that it's abuse including professionals and you agree that you agree your end that behavior because you were you didn't even come Dustin you didn't even show up you didn't even show up talking about not you've not seen a thing that that was not a professional setting for me to be involved in any way I paid for it I never received it is definitely one hundred percent of the million professionals that I have seen agree that that's not a professional sports in the process if it is often individuals and he's my individual thing I have no I haven't ever been to him off this situation it's not like I said he's been my personal person who's learning about like my secret thoughts for the last three years that's the situation took out my thoughts and I haven't been to him you take I don't know how many sessions have been to four or five so you take four or five sessions with him and we're even this is not my individual therapist this is a couple's marital therapists that you and I saw 11 years ago and you can absolutely get catch up time with him if you care enough to do it but all you want to do is smear any the character of anybody who actually knows what your company so now we did not see that that was a nun yes she did you call them unprofessional for being willing to see us as a couple so yes you smeared his character as a couple he saw you I did not see us as a couple he said he was professional for a couple months. My statements statements is with the guy G professionals that I've dealt with I know but those individuals absolutely no circumstances should I participate and change that Dynamic I know because you pretending that that I'm bringing you into individual therapist that you're bringing in fact the visual client before who have asked me to bring their spouse in and I said oh no no we can't do that we're too far in is that but this has nothing to do with that you haven't talked to me about anything besides your marriage and it's only been a month that's no different than any couple that any marriage therapists these I don't know what else to say about that other than lots of people disagree with them so I still say that I would go with you anyway until we find somebody that's independent taking things that people have said and you're making them apply to the situation because you don't want to go see my order because not poor enough what you've done no it's literally got nothing to do with it it literally does no it literally doesn't matte board has seen you for what did you say four or five sessions without me so you could be contradictory to every that's not the same as that's going to four or five years together with somebody that haven't been seeing one of us first what you call what did you call you guys who does the website you know the pay stubs doesn't and they said sure let's check idea what's going on first can I have five sessions with you and then five sessions with your wife you say forget you you're the most unprofessional person I've ever heard of by even that would not be the same as what you set up completely the same as a couple years ago Thursday is our couples therapy that's nothing to do with it okay well you didn't even show up and we did not have that he's unprofessional that was you trying to admit that was at work that was what we agreed to you move actually not several hours and I said that I would go to I couldn't get off of work to go that was early in the morning it was your choice it was off of your choice to there was your choice to move it up from what you told me to go to a show up you could have gone a few months ago and he didn't want to go but you didn't go but I'm saying that this is ridiculous and the reason that we're still arguing because they do not you have not repented of being abusive I don't know if you did everything that I'm actually I hope you recognize that behavior towards me in any given year of our marriage just pick one pick 2500 2008 to 2015 it doesn't matter what you you picked Behavior towards me was abusive in many categories of a piece on many levels can you agree to that I don't know I haven't I haven't encountered anybody professional that would agree to that quite honestly and if it's true I think then absolutely absolutely absolutely have not so that's why I'm interested in like an objective marriage counselor and it sounds like you're not interested in finding one which is what we had actually said to do any of this I need to find an individual choice and I have been working on that and it's been very difficult and I finally have one but now that I have an office to go to I can find out what their marriage counselors are like but okay in the meantime I don't think that this Dynamic is working because you are a beautiful you are being manipulative you are arguing you are harming me and it's not okay literally giving you every bit of my income and you're just wanting to argue I'm not arguing and telling you the information age I've given you literally every bit of my income except $100 a month for me to eat which is not enough manipulative not giving it to me that's that's not using it could pay down credit card debt it's not bad credit card debt off and I am being the service to you by hoping you to follow your money will block because your behavior with your money was completely out of control completely dead you don't have to do with it but you do know that you're so buying weighted blanket and music Chipotle $150,000 in debt you do know that the debt sort of thought that and $1,300 a month you know these things you know that you're completely out of control I don't agree with you that's what I'm saying your so out of touch with reality you don't even know how crazy 30% interest rates are you don't even recognize that you have to stop the discretionary spending in order to pay again this year going to take tens of thousands tens of thousands tens of thousands of dollars going down the tube because of the fact that you can't pay off this credit card debt because you're spending out of control so you're not doing anything amazing like a much more responsible than that but I've accepted early let you choose to do this because my wife taking my entire paycheck to live it up and pay off the credit card that she didn't even know about until September but if that's not what's happening Dustin you're taking the fact you can come you're responsible and you're using it to make yourself look like some kind of hero and make your room look like some kind of Stingy gold digger no I know for me between you and I it between you and I to your own brain you're making yourself look like a hero that's that's an extreme denial make you an appointment right here it is describing physics of the situation like literally what happened is there's no zero about it that's got nothing to do with anything that you're giving your wife to keep em reality the money's going to pay off credit card debt that you spent on luxury items yes you're absolutely in denial you're absolutely to you and to I trying to make yourself look like some kind of the monitor when you are a predator I'm not situation for absolutely a predator you are back to work and make something that you want me to do without interrupting I could tell you why this Dynamic is not working so that we could have something healthier because you can tell this is not healthy I'm trying to make it better so instead of interrupting me you can hear me say something that you not I have come up with where you not I decide that you are going to do everything that I tell you to do and then when I tell you that we need your retainer back at you won't do it and then when you twist things around on me and when you bring shift on me and when you argue with me about things it's time to explain to you why this is not a healthy Dynamic life so that we can have a healthy relationship and they argue with me I'm not trying to do that I'm trying to explain to you the situation so we can make it better I'm not arguing yep call things and not describing the actual situation could you stop arguing can you give you what you can't say the truth that's a healthy thing for you to say right now I am yell at her and say she's been he would say that you need to stop arguing errands you would say that you need to stop arguing you would say I'm not I'm not I know I know you're not arguing here and you over and over and over and over so you're the one who bought a tablet say your wife is allowed to have that perspective and you can listen to her at know that if if you want to feel that way but you don't have to her and yell at her and Falls you can hear what you have to say so I'm telling you it's not a healthy Dynamic I'm telling you you're not actually giving me everything that I asked for Thursday that you're picking and choosing what you want to do so that you can feel like a martyr or a hero when really you just have to be done anyway because of your past you responsible decisions and you're picking and choosing what you don't need to do because having a payment with your attorney could you power and control over me and that's the way you want to keep it because power and control means everything to you because you are and always have been an abuser off and it doesn't really do us any good to go to marital counseling if you don't think that you're the producer and it doesn't really do any good to be talking to one another on the phone when you don't think that you're an abuser and it doesn't do any good for us to pursue ever being together in a room alone again when you don't think that you're an abuser you are going to have to come to terms with the fact that you have done all kinds of things of our a wide variety of things to maintain power and control over me back and you specifically need therapy and you specifically need rehabilitation in the areas of relinquishing power and control so that you can stop being a domestic abuser and until we're there I don't see us ever being together so you want to say that you're willing to do everything that I asked you to do right now what I'm asking you to do is that net that you abuse and get help for being an abuser if you're not willing to do that then don't ever say that you can get everything I asked you to do because as much as possible are something with you and you can you can I convince them that I'm an abuser that would be great I could literally live in counseling to try to convince them that I maybe user and they wouldn't hear me okay so did you want you want to participate that would be awesome if you aren't going to participate it's not going to work so it it's I don't know what else to tell you about it off say hey domestic violence hotline do you recommend that abusers and their victims go to marital counseling together ask ask them that question and this and then right now I'm not going to work I'm literally something called them abusive relationship then you shouldn't be in the relationship obviously I'm very glad you obviously but that's what I'm trying to tell you obviously I gave I'm not I'm not asking you I'm telling you you are going to look up the phone number for the domestic violence hotline and you are going to ask them to send a fax using that I'm a whatever you think it is but I am a financial of user its sexual abuser a physical abuser an emotional to be very like I'm not saying it's a foregone conclusion I'm I'm not paying before. Conclusion I'm saying called the hotline have to do with anything when it down to you if we're going to get help or not I'm not saying it's a foregone conclusion I'm saying call the hotline and ask for that what they represent to call the hotline I'm not saying it's a foregone conclusion I'm saying call the office and ask them what they recommend a man does when he's being accused of being an abuser and ask them do you recommend that he require his wife to go to couples counseling with him they're going to say no we recommend the white leave the husband's the know what you're after then I can't help you I've done literally everything that you've asked me to tell you that's a lot that's a lie you can't keep telling lies at work I'm lying I think you have like zero concept like less than zero of the amount of stress and other emotional craziness that this whole situation is but I mean but if you think that you're going to call me one day and the past month you've been using our our joint funds to shop attorney's office and paid your existing attorney current money and you're keeping an existing divorce case against me but then you're just going to call and be like I want you to fire your attorney and get the money back can give it to me then expect that I can just do that at the blink-of-an-eye with all the other crap that I'm dealing with I think that's completely ignorant best and abuse of itself at words I speak to you if you're telling me that you're going to give me everything in a divorce settlement and that's not definitely your plan submitted to them telling me that is abuse because you're definitely 100 life without question you all of our habits in children and they said and literally everything that you that you come across hearing is abused to you that's why this is actually mother's name across the board 100% giving you all of our assets is abused they would say well why does he need a salary job a document defining saying you actually want to get divorced but we were trying not to I did you were supposed to petition back in like November or December you have to document off the document doesn't say that you're getting everything and you have represented it to me that you didn't want to get divorced well then why do you need to paint it you're being ridiculous the reason that I already said that I need the retainer the reason I had to pay my money was first before you even wait for Honey Lake Clinic and the reason that I had to put up with because I didn't give him a $15,000 retainer in the first place so I have literally right now that I have zero money invested with any change in the world 00 you're the one who's retaining money and smiling up to pay off credit card debt because you're the one who needs the best lawyer in the world just in case you're won't does what I mean what can a man do when you're saying you'll give me everything it doesn't make sense so for you to claim that you're giving me everything while you make us pay crazy on credit card debt because you need this use retainer with a bulldog who's going to fight for you, if that's abuse that's absolutely ridiculous manipulation on your part to make me think that you'd be willing to give me everything so that it's I think that it's safe to be with you when in reality you're trying to retain the right to fight me through the mail that I mean it's just crazy I'm not and I got to go okay we'll just keep in mind there is literally 0 people on the face of this planet who know our situation who have said he's not an abuser zero all right. I am including Ted cuz everything I told said he seemed to understand sounded like you were abuser but it wasn't long enough to conversation and I definitely didn't tell that with me I could have I mean making it all up he has no way of knowing month if you still have no way of knowing him hey I know but I'm just saying that doesn't that doesn't mean in any way that that pet can understand what happened and think that's not true there's no reason for anybody to think that everything that I said he completely got and that's why when he saw you he said I talked to your wife and I understood because it completely makes sense here oh that's it does the thing that it's not every no no I know but the reason that he was able to stay the same same said that all right buddy understood better he understood where I was coming from he didn't say I understood where she was coming from what did you tell me that he's up to be understood I understood why I have like a high regard for you or something I don't know okay well he said that after conversation in which I called you an abuser more than 10 times and I named more than ten behaviors that any person upon hearing them would label as abuses and I told him more than six people close to us who have been able to recognize it as abusive so that was the name of the time they can't describe the nature of the abuse I can't I can't and I did to him and I'm just so you can nobody else can they could only everybody who knows our situation literally one hundred percent of the people who describe and label as abusive 100% including text because they never have including Ted who I paid the psychological consultation and spent significant time with the new you're saying it doesn't know I have no baby literally just said that he does know so that's a little confusing and sessions with you and he didn't even know that you had any dead that's not true yes it is true he said he's in debt oh I had I didn't know anything about that I've been so confused about how a man works at a decent full-time job but thinks that he can afford a cheap apartment somewhere well oh oh no no no I just think that I can afford a cheap apartment somewhere the reason that I can is that you do not work and get all of my cards off credit card debt credit card debt say it with me credit card debt that's why that's the reason if I went to work to get back to work I would be going to work to pay off your credit card debt that's what my salary would go for no Aaron if we get divorced then you're going to go back to work to pay your expenses credit card credit card debt your credit card debt your credit card to pay off your credit card that I'm going to have to pay that's exactly how I'm going to happen with it that's exactly yes he told me that he told me to take half of the credit card debt and suck that is definitely definitely the first place but my salary is going to go if we get to getting all of our assets and I'm taking a credit card debt I don't know what else to give you but I'm not going to argue about it right now cuz I'm literally not doing my job which is literally our only income purchased and that you and I should not be talking you just send that this is true understand that you think that this is a a good conversation and healthy for us to communicate in this way no I think that we need to get marriage counseling but we don't serve we don't you you can fax me you can you need reform from your abuse and I agree with that that it even exists that's not true one hundred percent not ninety 100% of people who know our situation agree with 100% without exception including Ted who after a conversation about your views didn't get to talk to you and I can't do this anymore I got to get to work me enough that he would be willing to be to download and tell you if you're not willing to to get any sort of council or except I understand why except for high regard he didn't say that it didn't say that lady she clearly told you in high regard because because I'm an abuser and then it was I understand what you told me that he didn't say that lady's clearly upset you didn't say that lady is clearly out to ruin your life he didn't say that lady clearly has to lose that's what I'm saying didn't say any of that you didn't say that I didn't say that you're out to getting any nobody but nobody said that definitely would say Instinct walking to a woman who is it has a delusion that her husband is abusive when he's not really a woman having a delusion that her husband is abusive when he's not really which stink of that one is kind of a nut job or that woman has delusions of victimhood or that woman is out to get that husband or that woman is trying to play with him or those are the things that you definitely would say if you talk to them men who would making out that her husband was an abuser but when you talk to a woman talks clearly and eloquently and thoughtfully and reasonably about specific actions that she has run through a fax number of outside individuals to make sure that her perceptions are not off and is able you're talking about things that have happened years ago that are not accurate facts and talking about things that happened on seven days in the last few days you're not coming up on the last seven days I patterns of behavior to go at the time I was waiting to happen back in 2005 I was telling Ted how you received the file for divorce and took his reaction to hearing you speak about your specific abusive behaviors and being willing to label them as a fuse was to say I understand why you hold your life in such high regard that's not something you say about a woman who's breaking up that her husband's an abuser that something that you say about someone whose claims actually makes sense and are reasonable and are well-thought-out and are not meant just to hurt you okay I got to go if we're not going to marriage counseling one hundred percent no matter what I will believe God no matter what conclusion they come to I'm going to go with this person's conclusion then it's worth it to me because what you're wanting to do is get somebody for one hour a week where the two of us can sit in front of each other and you can make me look stupid for not trusting you and the person can say we need to work on you trust your husband or make me look stupid where you can make the person go oh we need to work on you know being argumentative all the Dynamics that looks completely dysfunctional because I'm a victim of your abuse and that could go on for three years before they figure out what's really going on but if you tell me I'm actually going to believe whatever conclusion this person comes to even if they say Destin's an abuser even if they say these people may never be together again because he is really treating her badly if you're going to trust that person and then that's what you want then just do that this is Jeff I want you want to keep going like this I don't know what you actually think I want I don't know but I can't do that and I want you to repent of your abuse I want you to repent of your abuse I want you to perform on your review I want you to go through excuse prediction habilitation program I want you to assemble a team of people around you were going to hold you accountable for a lot of choosing your life and you're going to trust that their judgment is better than your own because they are not abused and you are an abuser and they can see things that you can suck and I want you to maintain that accountability for the rest of our lives so that we can model a healthy marriage Market instead of a controlling marriage for our kids so that when they grow up they don't have to have this functional relationships and heartache so you know what I want and you don't have to say I don't see I don't you know what you say you know what I want you don't have to send that to divorce you but I want to suck you don't need to pretend that because you know the truth you know the truth of what I want you know the truth about my character you know the truth you know the truth you can't blame the fact that you have against us know because that's you wanted me to do that is just maintain control you want to put me in a position where I'm stuck with you so that you can choose me however you want to call it give me the paperwork to sign I will sign it well what's ironic is looking to make that necessary is that you won't use your record to help pay for food cart. I have to go to just be done with all the drama and just be able to work your way up an American classic and just live in an apartment and she's aware that your credit card debt over the next thirty years with your own salary and not have to talk to me and have scheduled visitation with your kids that's what it sounds like you want you're telling me how this is all bad so awful for you and I that I have your money I have less than 0% concept of how much stress is put on you like that this is terrible and you keep diverting to telling me to use papers to sign off no you keep acting like I'm trying to take something from you when that's I don't know what you're talking about I can't do this with you I have to go to work. I'm trying to get this credit card and the retailer would really help with that right now that's what I'm saying and you're trying to make me look bad for not dropping my petition okay and there's no reason if what you're saying is true there's no reason I can't just leave computation outstanding and you can irritate or back there's no reason that that should be a problem right all right cuz then we can make our bill anything else we can lower our interest rates I can try that you're not out to fight me in court but like we can establish those will you call the hotline today what hotline the domestic it might be the domestic violence hotline the national one yeah can you just ask me what you got to go I got to go to do what what many people keep calling you in the future or any just don't see it and I'll tell you all right goodbye