speaker 1:  this call may be recorded press one to accept hello oh sorry about that sometime what the phone guide oh okay all right I didn't hear what you said about what I didn't hear you what I don't know I didn't hear you I said okay anyways I think that do you feel like your mom is being honest with you about like how her paying the rent on one of our rentals for you to like put her in a position to be able to manipulate our settlements and manipulate me and make sure that we get divorced so that she's resolved of her improprieties it's not equal footing with like she being honest with you about that or do you think she's just trying to not say all of that and make you think that she's just helping you cuz she dead homeless he represents to me that she wants us to get together and terrified of me being homeless she is terrified of you being homeless yeah huh yeah okay so I mean if that's the case then it would be really easy to get her to pay for an apartment for you
speaker 2: want
speaker 1: to be posted my children and close to use that okay. Yeah but you understand right now but you understand that right now when you're close to the children you're doing really destructive things like I do that before I visited you at Honey Lake we even went to you know make it clear that they're necessary boundaries when you were touring sort of the children so that you don't give the children the false impression that you're not perfect and just tearing our family apart because I'm a terrible mother like part of that was not you know I don't know anything I love you or trying to do hugs and it was extraordinarily regulative for you to wait until visitation of your life asked to the patient day was already over and it couldn't influence whether I decided to visit you in the future to take that opportunity to make a really puppy dog face in front of the kids and look really hurt that you weren't getting a hug like that was apologize emotionally psychologically harmful to them and it is extraordinarily telling that you did not choose to do that on our for previous month I don't think that what you're busy you know if it doesn't find because this week you have because what if I could what hello are you there I'm here because of what is it can you hear me I can hear you because what I only had to hug you because of what because of what and only tried to have you repeat the beginning part of the footage you keep saying the same thing but you'll get caught that when you get to the one thing I need to hear so you don't need to say I only tried to hug you because I already heard that and you don't need to say this week on the phone you told me cuz I already heard that before and after that we can always cut out can you please tell me what it is
speaker 2: I
speaker 1: don't know what you're missing the part that comes after I only tried to hug you because this week on the phone you said I said would you be willing to help me yes do you have a recording of that I'm away I don't know if I can find that would you be able to husband yeah all right I have to wonder what the context was because we had really specific conversations where we set that as boundary I'm sorry it's okay I'm just saying like if you're actually in recognition that you're actually doing really psychologically and emotionally harmful things took in the children during our separation then you're not going to clean so tightly to this idea that you need to have this physical proximity to be able to continue to perpetrate those things that you do without even as an ingrained habit what I'm saying like you living a block away from us actually actually makes it more likely that you're not going to be able to stop being destructive and for us to remarry I'm saying like a certain you're right to continue to cross boundaries that's part of the problem well with me do you really want to live with me hello that's what your question
speaker 2: well
speaker 1: I'm ready to vent the trick question it's going to say it and the time want to live with you about something you don't want a little bit you know but I'm just saying like there's a different way to go about want to live with me you would be you know ma'am especially easy I'm just asking you to submit to The Godly Authority we put in your life God we are so so so so so so blessed. Then most couples don't have this couples don't have what we have we have some really really emotionally mature people to walk through this with us so long you unconditionally love you and will sacrifice for you in every way home you're not talking about on ethical Moon you're not talking about dysfunctional then you're not talking about unreasonable then you're not talking about men who would take advantage of you we're talking about people who really love you and in fact has told you that you know maybe you should make sure that you have plenty of hesitation in the settlement I probably would have told you the same thing on that same day like that's not out of line it's not just functional is not wrong reasonable perspectives that I am in agreement with and demand until she has the kids 50% of the time there's money well he did he told me that he didn't tell you that well he did everything right or Elders out of my life I'm not well I'm paying greater Elders out of my life I'm not be reached out and stuff what you are trying to do is discredit them and what you are trying to do is make them look like they're nervous functioning and that they have known not interested in anybody advice about anything are what do what you're trying to see values that to the point that you don't have to follow their opinions even when their opinion is that you're abusing your life in a wreck you know get because you've done that to me when you get it to me before we got married you guys rule that's going to make yourself look like the one is one and me look like the foolish one to the point that you're the only one who's allowed to be the sole judge of your abusing your wife your wife and see if it with our own eyes and has bruises doesn't get to where I met her she's being abused the other is to see it was their owner is don't get to have an opinion about your white whether your wife is being abused you you literally want to be the only person in the entire world who gets to be the judge of whether your wife being a month a little bit unfair coming from the predator so next one that well who else is nothing I mean it's the way it or whether you're a loser who else who will you trust to actually have an opinion on when you're being abusive it's got to be somebody besides the perpetrator that's obvious there's a lot of time but those Elders following is from them the only time that I didn't follow their advice was when they gave me different advice Thursday because I was a what you're going to do was not to talk to other people about it and this is why if you have followed the council everything would be okay right now but you walked outside of God's will you walked outside of the wisdom of men who understood that we were deep in thoughts into a really deep sticky thing that it would not be smart for you to be talking to people who don't have the full picture you suck outside of that swelling when it's Camille without anybody else with you this is the result so they killed myself I don't know I think like go back to that day you decided to disobey the others and go to Neil go back to that day off but imagine but you haven't gotten the mail if you have it under Neil you would have not gotten referred to those after Jackie's if you haven't found a job for you then you wouldn't be convinced that Jackie things take off all the other fit and trusted to tell you that you're using your wife and you wouldn't be suicidal right now like cuz I was suicidal and with it because I was the final it's a deal if they went to our church there was nobody to talk to did you tell me about yes can you add the search in the doors were locked or they wouldn't talk to you like literally with the church like like Scott Academy his wife my kids away without even let me hug goodbye and everybody else just walked away when I talk to me off now the all flow you're saying Allison take your kids away without letting you say goodbye okay well you know that that goodbye ritual that you're doing is a little bit but the power grab you recognize that you always know when your visit with your kids or Vending anyone has the main kiss them goodbye I'm just saying like you could play in if you're going to be somewhere at 3:00 you could plan to be there at 2:15 a.m. so that you could have Thirty Seconds to say goodbye to your kids or you can plan there to get to 2:55 if you want five minutes to say goodbye to your kids but people are consistently like telling you that you're yeah I'm in terms of your life that is not healthy for the children to be seeing that your wife is with not giving them a five-minute goodbye I was hugging them and kiss them goodbye which I was not able to do because they were like Alison cuz we're in there for whatever reason I don't know on the weekend looking after you have the weekend it's going to get help there at literally couldn't get out there literally showed up my childhood bathrooms or if that's who I haven't seen in bring it in to get help any what I need but he believed that you were suicidal because someone was taking your children away from you so will you understand that in a situation where you have for elders who wisely are telling you what you actually need to do to be able to live with your children one hundred percent of the time because they actually know what's going on and what's going to lead to that positive outcome for somebody else to think that you're suicidal because people are trying to take your children away from you it's probably not a good person to be getting advice from somebody deliver okay so it just doesn't make sense to me why you think that somehow something that Neal and Jacquees say somehow negates like the really good advice that you got from them as a team as far as the letter that they gave me I've done more than follow it I don't know how to get anything else here off I think that that week was pretty rough because you were doing a lot of blame-shifting In Our Family Wizard I think that you were not being honest when you were giving me messages saying that you would take one hundred percent of the visitation time that you were offered I think that everybody was rightly nervous that you were going to paint me as somebody when we were trying when the fact was that Christmas week you didn't have enough time off of work to have them one hundred percent of the time and the fact was that you knew that would be in the children's best interests would be to have some normalcy and to get to do their normal Christmas stuff with me like you do what what children's best interests so that way you were doing these harassing blame-shifting messages when I asked you you know when you wanted them and I was offering them to you and you were telling me that I have to take the schedule we we did it was it was so ridiculous how many back and forth we did because everybody was like wow it's really obvious he's trying to make are and have to pick the schedule that's in the office so that he can point a finger at her and say that she's not giving him enough time with the kids that is a really sick way to use the elders advice of saying that you should let you pick the time Jerry she's literally offering him whatever he wants and there's a good chance that he's going to flip this whole thing off next month and say that he's pursuing fifty-fifty and there's a really good chance that he's going to use whatever irritates for Christmas to say that she can't be trusted to foster a relationship with your father we did not see this coming that Dustin would use the elders advice and such a manipulative way but wow look here he's doing it and I would put it back on you and our family wizard message and you come back and we'll judge better way I told you with that I will take all of the time allotted to me that's come to love the children and make love me just ask for more time with I mean all this grandiose verbiage to paint yourself is this amazing father who's entitled to so much with this withholding wife and I literally dead we'll let you have the 24/7 everyday but you're not willing to admit that your work schedule is always going to come first and your work your work schedule is always off to you and your work schedule doesn't really allow you to be with your kids one hundred percent of the time and it turns out low and behold weeks later all of a sudden you flipped and 50/50 and you were telling lots of people that your wife was withholding it was it was amazing but you did it sure did it so if you know if you want to go around and say I'm doing everything they told me they are not be enough like that's why that's that's not the way in which somebody who's submitting to that kind of counsel speaks to his wise messages his wife flipped his tactics on his wise paints his life as the billing plays the victim when he's done the perpetrator like none of that like none of that if you weren't behaving if those strings practical ways and none of this would even be happening like they would have sat down with you and they would have called you cheated on your wife. She was in Cape Cod and you would have said yeah I did I really really did and it wasn't even really strong I was the one who was pursuing it and they would have said there's forgiveness in the garage the good news is that you don't have to wait and guilt and shame cuz Craig made it for you and the good news is that you have a whole family here that loves you is going to help you prevent this kind of thing from happening in the future because it's really destructive but you're going to need to quit that job and you don't need to worry about the money we'll support you financially will house your children will feed your children we've got you. Got you that's never going to leave your abandon you and you can rest in that and we would have gone home that night and we would have had sex and was fun together in the same bed every night I have a hot meal ready for you on the table whenever you get home from you need job at Lowe's I mean it just all of it there's no reason for any of this none you're not you're not a victim of anything you know and I'm not saying you have to work at Lowe's I'm just saying that light
speaker 2: B
speaker 1: the extremities of the emotional psychological and social abuse that you sub carrying out for the last six seven months is not something that you can possibly Express to the old help unless you spent seven months talking to him for three hours a day and it's not something you could express to pad unless you spent seven months talking to him for three hours a day like of the manipulative actions thoughts you have carried out or not expressible in yes 20 hours of stopping you don't think anybody can help you what what help me basically you don't think anyone can help you what what you don't think that anybody can help me what you don't think that anybody can help me oh do I think anybody can help you with
speaker 2: I
speaker 1: do I probably at this point I think it's more important to me probably at this point the easiest would be for you to just stop arguing and never have an opinion about anything again and just choose that being my husband is more important and there might be another way there might be a way where we ship you off to Germany for six years to meet the world's foremost expert in cutting-edge psychoanalysis and therapeutic and then you know somehow like rap I don't know it's not be my husband here and he's but the easy way easy way is to just to just stop fighting and just be willing to listen to other wise people around you cuz you're saying that you were deluding yourself into thinking that you're falling all over following their counsel under while I know but I'm just saying like to be creative enough to tell me that they had directed you to choose the time-sharing schedule and then Loop me into that whole thing with Christmas instead of just raining up and say I can't get off work and then blame-shifting and trying to make me look bad for asking you when you could have the kids for Christmas like that was all going on but I mean what aren't you the day that you're talking about wasn't that the day that you somehow drove by my house when you're supposed to be with the kids in Jacksonville like aren't you talking about the day that you drove past the house and then you took me in the hallway at church and said I was with a man and the kids said that they like spent the whole day going with you to take pictures of your your work sites I mean isn't that what you're talking about I know but you actually have birthday that was well yeah I'm just I'm just saying I'm just trying to put some contacts to your claim that you know your church had abandoned you when you were being so perfect life like follow their counsel I think it's I think that we're talking about the weekend that you've somehow somehow we're driving around with the kids that would be perfect following their advice and all right thank you I don't I'm not saying that I ever follow any advice perfectly I'm saying that I was not in a good place and I went to our church to get help and her senior pastor was dead and its way for it's not about to speak with them and it was I think that that's a little bit too I think it's a little bit unfair of you to remove that from the context of your behavior that same morning what I don't know what you're talking about the kids had a great weekend together well I know but you need to understand that Kate McDonald is a licensed clinical social worker and that she saw you stopped me into the hallway the one time that you knew you could get me alone because I have put so many protect physical Protections in place for me I've had to be displaced from my own house so many times just avoid being there with your abusive behavior and my mom has become really really really uncomfortable with you shifting your psychological abuse to her now that I'm not available as a Target like you're aware of all of that and you do end as a predator would an appointment for you better turn off I know but but not in front of other people like you stalked me into a hallway when you were supposed to be listening to a sermon and what in a public place and I was very had my residence right when you should have been listening to a sermon you spoke to me in such a scary way that K who hasn't heard that saying before and wouldn't have a reason to classify it in any particular way less fearful for my life and I was beer first I wasn't trying to scare you at all I don't know what about it I understand but that's possible way for a man to talk to a woman and it's a long way for a man to talk to a woman and it's abusive way for a man to talk to a woman it's a scary way for a man I mean I would like to not do that to you because I'm certainly not my intention you should not Corner me in a hallway when you supposed to be listening to the sermon cover you should not in the hallway here and have my truck off you know don't have that you did not have my consent that you could have messaged me in our family was off the night before you know you could have messaged me that morning I know but you knew that there was a boundary that we not speak without other you knew that I had set a boundary back in September 3rd not speak without a third party you knew that boundary and you went out of your way to subvert it without my consent that is predatory and I'm sorry what the this is not a matter of female sensitivity this isn't need to understand how she perceived it and be sensitive to what it is that she's thought about that the milk know what you did not have a vehicle for my physical safety that way so it was home until 4. Okay she's she doesn't have any reason to misrepresent your phone or your behavior or the fact that you weren't respecting the communication boundaries I was not aware that that was a problem I'm sorry it was there and I and she was able to tell just by the way that you thought we had a communication boundary because we both stopped talking about it would have done no reason to go and get me alone time that you indicated that you weren't okay talking about it was when you walked off and I did not block that's not true I I need to cater to the September that I wasn't comfortable talking to you at all without a third party present I have to talk to me I didn't stop to talk to you. I went in the nursery to drop off sign-in you stood at the doorway so that I was unable to physically exit the nursery without passing you I walked through that that's the only seat that's the way to get back to my seat to listen to the sermon okay like I said I apologize I need to make you scared it's not about how I felt destined it's not all about how I felt it's about the fact that you engaged in predatory behavior but that that you are emotionally abusive the fact that you do not respect the reasonable boundaries that other men respect and that is the context of the behavior that people were physically scared of you because you were displaying really unstable physically sick very behaviors I mean if that's her face was scared to me that seems to me I held her children never had any interaction with it anymore but yes she has to have a relationship is for me to not have any opinions I mean that's the shortcut way absolutely the thing about having an opinion and not a person that doesn't have opinions secondly I didn't doesn't it to you in every way yeah that was in this case that would be appropriate for probably a five-year probationary. Yeah so they probation yeah a period of time where you admit that you've been really abusive to me and because of your abuse that it makes sense that you no longer have the power and control that you have I might have to work, but the two of anything basically however that's in that's not acceptable that committed to our I know there but what I know is that you're going to take the money couple things and will it be able to five years flipping I mean to try to convince me that you were so perfect and I was the one who was down turning all along like like at the end of our probationary period oh you're doing it right now like you trying to call right you're sorry for hi I'm serious about trying to make this work yeah I'll take you also got like to make a decision you don't get the money that work we don't get to sit in the McDonald's living room five people are telling you you need to put that job and you say I'm not doing that we don't get to say you need to leave work at 4:30 in the day I'm not doing that we don't get to say the same time thinking of ways but selfishness has affected your life and say I'm not selfish it was just saying don't have opinions were saying actually submit your actions that's right because your judgment is have been sorely lacking in destructive all right I'm here take my phone away yeah me too what and then thank you I'm here honey late I've missed a class they may take away my phone what it's only the last one I didn't hear the last part because your voice Trails off the last what I mean did you say that again what do I want you to do I want to do situation what you want me to do what do you mean I gave you a message that I have no opinions and you're going to decide things I'm asking for what you want me to do today and you say you want that to be the player so like everything works out I'm saying if that's like like like how much money you're allowed to spend hello no I don't have an opinion on anything that you're submitting to Miramar, then you're not going to have an opinion about it you're just going to spend the money cuz you don't have it in your lungs right is that what I'm going to talk it over with my therapist I don't I don't think we have a choice whatever it takes to save our family but what hello I don't have a choice can't hear you I don't think we have a choice. Okay all right well I mean you can like you can tell that this is he already know about like that day that you went to the email because whoever you were suicidal
speaker 2: so he
speaker 1: doesn't know about that I think so not remember oh you think he does now so okay we'll just tell him that that the contacts was that you had essentially cornered your wife in the hallway when the terminal starting and you knew that she was going to drop your kid off in the nursery and couldn't get back to your seat without in that hallway and that you confronted her about having a man in her kitchen at a time when it didn't really make sense that for you to be through by her house because you were supposed to be with kids in Jacksonville and that what all right I mean I know because the there's a creepiness level of driving past somebody's house and spying on that with you when you've already been I knew but but we have enough like case history to prove that we had a plan in place for you to be able to come get tools when you dated at like then repetition of you sending me a message that there were repetitions of you sending me a message saying that you need to get something and me messaging you back absolutely anytime unrestricted access please just let me know when you've left so I know it's safe to come back we have enough case history of you following that procedure to say that you absolutely do about that procedure
speaker 2: and
speaker 1: if you drove by and needed the tool and you felt like you shouldn't get it because I was there you could have pulled over and you could have thought the amount that you wanted to get a stool I could have made a decision about whether I wanted to just get it while I was there or whether I wanted to leave and have you messaged me with you off like you knew that that for me in a hallway the next day and get confronted exactly quarters in the hallway the next day and they get confronted about having a man in my house in a way that wage some tactical Maneuvers for you to get me alone when you do that we weren't supposed to be talking without a third-party process and in an accusatory and shaming manner to the point where a third party who oversaw heard it from down the hallway was fearful for my physical safety and then doing and saying a little bit bizarre all I did was ask you either. So that was bizarre it is developers to be driving by and not telling me that your dragon that's not even from Jacksonville you have plenty of opportunity to tell me Well ahead of time that you need to come by Jackson though we were in Fernandina okay well you have plenty of time you could have messaged me that you need to come by you chose not to and then after the five like after you drove by the house he was oh there's a man there we can't stop your mom has a man in the kitchen oh no, this is your house I know that you lived there but we can't stop by the house I can get my Google because it looks like there was a man in my kitchen and then to get up the next morning with something in your mind I need to find out who that man was in bed not like a message or wife hey who was that man and I'll get you a manager try to get it to her yesterday and then when I go answer you directly because I'm really uncomfortable talking to you alone and feeling comfortable about the fact that you I don't even know what you're talking about or why you're talking to me is the lifetime shameful and your response to be I'm willing to spend money to find out like that was your response you don't have to tell me I'm willing to spend money to find out like you were behaving really graphically and you don't find this surprising you know what headspace you in you know like seeing those cuz you called him like you were losing it buddy you were losing it big time any anybody can say you would definitely losing touch with reality and anybody should say guys reality yeah how did I get in touch with reality there really was a man in our kitchen when I really don't know who it was I to think that you should not message me about it to think that I needed to be confronted about it to think that I should be ashamed of it I ask you who it was a question to know if my wife took a first of all no it's not if that's creepy to think that you have a right to know everything your wife does that is creepy right there and it said that I have a right to know everything you do but I know the exact that you wanted to cost me who is in there
speaker 2: what
speaker 1: you hear yourself right now like he definitely needs a touch with reality I'm just saying like this this is weird Everybody who knows what he's doing this is weird it doesn't make sense for you to access wage working the one that bought the stuff. I don't no it's saying need to understand about people were physically scared of you
speaker 2: you
speaker 1: need to understand that your behavior was predatory you need to understand that your behavior was pathological you need to understand that your behavior was abusive you need to understand that but he's those kinds of behaviors with me ever since we were dating for at least six months and up until now you've been able to do them all behind closed doors to keep me ashamed to keep me loading everything to keep me accountable to you to keep me under your control to keep me scared of young people working on the shelf and as long as it closed doors nobody else knew about it then really effective tactics but when somebody sees that demeanor for the very first time and right after that the very first time they see it as a third-party they can go wow he's scary he might hurt her validates to me that what I've been experiencing all these countries somebody the way you treated me in that hallway is better to pathological abusive and threatening and it feels for you that way because you've got it to our house I didn't threaten you or yes so you to follow anything home the order of birth to a public hallway to the service of the call at our church right did anybody else I won't follow you down the hallway bulb, but the context is that you behaving as a predator and the contact sent out a lot of people thought that you might be ready to shoot somebody in her somebody and that wasn't unreasonable for some reason but underneath Google statement for somebody that's never physically like fate any threats against anybody for anybody in that church that knows me to say oh well he said physically hurt somebody or she'd somebody it's like a little bit extremely insane quite honestly it is literally dead not early irresponsible rhetoric to say to my wife or to anybody else and that is why not safe for me to be there may be a powerful about you for that way that morning and that is because it is threatening and yeah you are canceling it's not that the police could put a restraining order on you for using the web I'm sorry that you know what you can get away with saying it's still threatening you know how you can shame me you know how you can try to embarrass me you know how you can make me uncomfortable you know how you can calm down trees you know what you can get away with doing that's going to influence my behavior and make me feel bad and make me feel uncomfortable without getting your erupted you know and you know I don't know I know that as well as you on that has gotten me arrested because I've never actually written down or anybody else that's true that's true that's not true you've not gotten a reference I'll tell you when I imagine how this no opinion things in the work in a situation of the excuse to call the police because I know how you verbally spit all around it's like it's to flip it around on me it's just like when DJs like strangled his girlfriend and she called the police and she got arrested like you're that good your locket and I know it and I knew it I'm trying to figure out a way for the store and you have an opinion but I trying to not have an opinion that the opinion has to include them in a predatory manner the opinion has to include it wasn't reasonable of me to drive past that house without letting my life know what time the opinion has to include it wasn't reasonable as me to call Creative paddle on her for having a man in our kitchen what I know her character and I know that she's married and I know that she's not bringing another man because backpack obvious like you if you're going to have an opinion it has to include that you were out of touch with you when you're divorcing and there's a man and my kitchen it's not super obvious it is because you know they just like everybody else goes me it's super obvious it might not be super obvious to talk because he doesn't know my character so you can paint it your wife is leaving you and seeing another man but you know me and anybody who knows me knows that that is really really irrational thinking to be able to get to that place in your mind anybody who knows me knows that you've gone off the deep end when you start thinking about it or do covid-19 all right and so I can find you in the hallway sorry I know but it's going to take that like that it's not that that actually is a problem because it scares me it's that you are on your core a predator and it is. When Aaron and Allison are behaved in a certain way that same day but you behaved as a predator within the four walls of their Church I wasn't even there yeah I went to her sanctuary same. when it got that night it was almost asleep and you said it was almost asleep is broggy any turned aside just enough to look at me like the side and you said why why did you say that you would cover it back to the nursery you didn't come back you scared me it took away and security broke his heart it's not nice to say I'll be right back buddy and then come back home that's not okay but is extraordinarily damaging tin sense of attachment and Security in this world I did go to Allison for Sanctuary because I was fearful of you I'm sorry and say you have to give it the full weight of the contact that you were being a predator about to miss my well I'm just I'm not trying to accuse you of all of that just for the sake of that I want you to understand the context of error analysis behavior and that it was completely reasonable if there was an excellent discernment it doesn't change things like that have to do with me saying good-bye to my children when I only get to see them every other weekend but not dead so they have this market mean you could say something personable or like just saying that you're taking people's reactions to you behaving in a scary threatening predatory manner trying to divert attention from your extremely disturbing anti-social behaviors it does not make sense you took diverts blame for a facial expression on to another person expression I mean we're talking about a whole pattern of behavior here I know but you want to talk about the smirk on his face that was just the last time I allowed myself to be projected do it can we talk about all the facial expressions that you you used from July to December like they're the actual address that's what I'm saying you you want to somehow take the stock that people respond to your abuse as some kind of justification for your abuse like if you weren't doing the abuse those things wouldn't be happening it wouldn't be having a facial expression in her suits abusing your wife immature tale if you didn't use your wife amateur Conway so the solution is really simple don't do that in the church hallway not divert attention to the fact that he had a facial expression the it's the same as you divorcing do you don't need to go around diverting attention to my unbiblical no grounds for divorce when you could just say oh let me notice that there were never biblical grounds for my abuse in the first place like none of these things with these people's thoughts you can take ownership of your actual creepiness all right sounds good bye