speaker 1:  this call may be recorded press one to accept we decided not to add you in okay are you I guess you're off from work no working oh you're just wearing a mask at work up another appointment what's that set up another appointment or anything well I I don't really want to do a couples counseling with you anymore, so no I don't really feel like I have anything to work on with you we're like we are able we're able to identify anything that we need to work on as a couple
speaker 2: so
speaker 1: okay can just move on from that hey wiken October November I remember I had sent you a message. I think I was saying it'd be good for you I think I said that you could see the kids anytime I would just wanted like 24 hour notice before you put something on the calendar and you you basically messaged me back that that was unreasonable but I feel like that is kind of reasonable and I feel like most people think that that's reasonable I just wonder if what you think is that something that you might think about doing
speaker 2: bye what do you
speaker 1: think hello hello I was saying could we maybe just not change plans with the kids within 24 hours whatever you want in okay understand that that put edit hello hello let me see no because you're the one who uses you know because you're the one who's choosing for me to be having them at the time that I have them like the fact that they're with me is not because I've said I get primary custody and you only get visitation haha like that didn't happen so it's it's a fantasy to think that you're in a at a disadvantage like you're the one who's choosing and has chosen and will continue to choose a career that doesn't allow you take care for your children it's just a matter of of what decisions you're making in your life that determine how much time you can spend with your kids so if you want to look at next week and you want to you know make lots of plans to see him that you can't get out your calendar and do that why did you ask me to put a couple of things today and then do it I think that on Saturday I decided I needed to just be done but we've already talked about that a lot so you already know why that was and when when I told Matt that I just needed to be done I was thinking in terms of canceling but then he messaged me to confirm the appointment and I thought well I have to talk to you too much this week and so it would be okay to just have a safe place to have a conversation with you but anyways then I talked to him and I kind of explained to him why it wasn't couples counseling wasn't helpful to me and wasn't working for me and he was understanding of that was there something that you were wanting to talk about with him or thinking was going to actually be worthwhile II not on that one yeah yeah okay oh there's not a key and that's all right actually I'm on the phone currently but would you mind a season Becky Pig no you're good you have a super I agree doesn't have any seats on any of the house I in the next that was something awesome sorry I can't hear you do you have reception I don't know it's kind of funny hearing sometimes I have reception but it still doesn't work I just saying that I still want to be together so I was hopeful that hopeful that what thank you I was hopeful that we could keep working on things but hopefully we can start and DX communicating right now what we communicate is not unwell and so I guess my hope is that some time apart will give us both some time this month work on our own issues well if you thinking that we have communication problems
speaker 2: though like it's not
speaker 1: going to get better because that's not the problem and found other than the problem thanks you gotta recognize that when you talk about like communication in marriage. Do you have any with somebody on the extremely advanced level like and really good listener and I'm really good at understanding different perspectives and it really good
speaker 2: at letting you know
speaker 1: with great accuracy what I'm thinking and feeling so we don't have communication problems so so you don't I don't know what I problems anymore but I myself I said I I'm not sure that I know what our problems are anymore but I'm going to keep working on myself and I want you to be happy
speaker 2: yeah
speaker 1: if you don't know what your problems are then you don't really have anything to work on do you and have seen a lot of professionals yeah and they give you a lot of validation and you like that and then hello I said I'm doing everything I can Darren I'm sorry you just cutting out a lot Dustin you just said I'm out I'm doing everything I can with as much dependent
speaker 2: I'm
speaker 1: sorry is it just you don't have good reception okay but I don't I don't think that seeing a lot of therapists is is actually you know the issue I don't know what I can do for you I'm I mean that's not true obviously and I think that you've asked me to do you ask me another thing that will invest those I mean that's not true I told you that it doesn't I could give you a different program to go through every six months for the rest of your life but that doesn't mean that you're going to stop treating me poorly and stop doing bad things to me and stop denying and minimizing and blame-shifting when you get called out on them you can go through every program known to man and still do bad things it seems like more than anything you just don't want like it seems like more than anything you really just don't want blink like blame on you not true I don't know I don't know I hear you blame me for a lot of things but I don't very often hear you blame yourself for anything explain myself at home like myself for not blowing you off if you haven't started showing me love and care if you haven't changed your work schedule so I have changed my work schedule. I went in on one Saturday because it can get anybody to do one particular thing on that same Saturday I have people doing lots of other extra work and they've done all of my other Xtreme 4 months . to 3 for like a lot anything okay well doesn't it certainly doesn't sound like you're certainly doesn't sound like you're any better ownership how's that because I just mentioned that you still work Saturdays and your response she's about I know but ownership of that how can I better take advantage about it because you didn't say you're right I do still work on Saturdays you're right I do still work on your right I do still work on Saturdays right I have I have a I haven't made it a top priority to figure out how to make sure that doesn't happen again I've been I've been passive in I mean I'm going to have to find more people I can I can hire my work out to I'm going to have to apply to a different company I'm going to have to apply myself to get my contractor's license I'm going out like there's no ownership of the fact that you are still doing the same destructive patterns you've always been doing there's no ownership it's time to change. Oh look at all the work that I've hired out oh let me put up a smokescreen oh deflect attention away from the one Saturday that I worked that's not owner I'm just saying your respond my license in the phone to me pointing out that you still work on Saturdays does not show that you've made any changes in your ability to own the destructive behaviors made a big issue out of Saturday's that you didn't work you made a big issue out of all the work that you've hired other people to do owning the you still work on Saturday and if that's what you want that's fine you understand the first that's why I work for you can work all the Saturdays that you were home with the children and they get you still working on Saturday 6 so if you try and get like that's matter when it's like I've have had the work one Saturday a month know and the goal is not to have to do that time is to get somebody else to do the work next time you hear yourself minimizing it no not here I'm taking ownership when you're trying them when you're trying not to work on Saturdays yet you're working on Saturdays that's not a feather in your cap saying it wrong and minimizing it you're still minimizing it like it's not a credit to you that you're trying to work on Saturdays that's not that's not good that's not it like people to whom it is important not to work on Saturdays you know what they get they get laid off they get fired that's because that's what happens to people who have an actual commitment to not work on Saturdays you don't fall in that category and I'm sorry and I feel like I have made a lot of changes and I will well the change you're talking about though is is you taking so long to ship ship I've I've admitted everything that had happened as committed to God no you've not that's the he's not he's done a lot of really horrible things to me and he's blamed me for the horrible things you've done to me and you have not blamed yourself to the horrible things you've done to me you have excuses you have explanations you have ways to minimize their impact say that I shouldn't be heard about them but you don't own that they're horrible and completely within your control not to do yet you chose to do them let me I can't I can't help you with that anymore I'm not really honestly at this point I'm not really that interested it's not like that's just an extension of you making me be responsible for your work pretending that there's something that I could say that you would hear from somebody else that even though you didn't hear it from ten other people it's like my job to make you see it me what I think a professional might be able to help yeah well that's your decision does your decision if you want to make a decision to only listen if you want to make a decision to not to not listen to lay people and you want to make a decision to only listen to a professional that's your vision and you can own that that I it's your decision it's a professional so that they can actually help me yeah that your decision though like if you want to listen to professional it's going to be because you've made a decision to be open to hearing what they have to say yes like if you want just like if you will understand what's going on and help me that's up to you it's not that they have magical powers it's up to you it's up to you if you want to choose to actually listen to what they have to say but if you want to choose not to just like you choose not to listen to Aaron Bell just like you choose not to listen to the c a McDonald that's your choice is your choice do you let him talk to you for an hour and then you turn around and you go to your home making the same tired arguments about why she invited you to come to her house and she ruins your schedule for your day by demanding and snatching that's what you do with what the a McDonald tells you so no no you don't you don't you don't and you know Matt has a PHD and he told you the same thing and you didn't listen to him either and and what you have to understand that is that the entire process would it be told me I didn't your wife didn't invite you over you didn't have some promise or pact or agreement that your wife wasn't going to be allowed to see those documents any and he admitted it was Universal said that it would be considered wrong for a husband to shred Financial papers without letting his wife's name first accurate or not like you said all of those things but you have to understand though is that the process of you making the decision that you want to put your wife through the turmoil of being involved in those conversations with you is abuse what you did to me on Easter was abused the conversation we had afterward was abused a conversation you had later in the week was abused the conversation we had the following week was the views the couples counseling session with you and me and Matt where we talked about what had happened on Easter was traumatic for me so you having this expectation that I need to be involved in these kinds of conversations so that you can see what it is that I'm seeing that's predatory on your part it is harmful to me in making a decision over and over and over to harm your wife and it doesn't even seem like your goal is actually to understand what she's seeing and feeling because if that was what you needed you could talk to anybody else besides your wife and anybody else besides your wife could explain her perspective to you why because her perspective is not dead unique I'm not strange in this regard I don't have some bizarre way of looking at the world that makes me offended by those things they're universals that's so anybody anybody anybody can explain them to you without you having to traumatize Your Wife by putting her through having to hear you're tired excuses you didn't listen to see it you're not you're not listening to really wise people all around you who are all telling you the same thing the only people you're listening to our people who don't have access to the facts and that is the actor includes concerning it's extremely concerning God help me I know but you're what you're doing right now is abused towards me you you putting on me the expectation that because you know that there are dozens of people who could do what you're asking you to do who wouldn't be harmed by it you know that you can get CA to talk to your therapist you know that you can get Aaron to talk to your therapist so that you can get Brianna to talk to your therapist you know that you can get Jamie to talk to your therapist you know these things and yet you're choosing to Target the one person who's going to be harmed the most by getting pulled into it
speaker 2: I
speaker 1: don't want to harm me then don't do it don't don't be a predator don't come at me and try to get me into something that you know is going to harm me stop you know as well as I do that the reason you were excited about couples counseling is because you thought you had a shot at getting me to admit that it's okay for us to have our own perspective you know that that's what you were going for if that is okay if we have our own perspective and I don't know if you're abusing your wife may not a situation where you go okay what we need is for this victim to just accept that herb user's perspective is every bit as valid as her off so that she can just let go of her expectations that he starts behaving the way she wants us to that that's not valid we're not talking about a wife who just has her because she's been misperceiving things over the years okay we're talking about actual material damage that you have been inflicting in a one-sided manner and that one hundred percent of people who have actual access to the facts of the case would agree was harmful behavior on your part and was not caused by faith in Farmville or precipitating behaviors on my end the only thing that I have done that's caused it is choosing to stay in a marriage with you. The only thing I can do to stop it is to choose not to be in a marriage with you that's the amount of power that you've given me in this because telling you the problems does nothing asking you to changes does nothing there's literally one thing I have power over and that's to be married to you or not married to you okay what there you go okay if you don't okay yeah
speaker 2: Glen yeah and
speaker 1: going to keep working on myself and ever find about to a couple of counselors therapists I I don't think that it's right for you to speak to me that way and I'd like you to stop got it actually I think I've seen this new fellow three times now and ask them at the end if he thought that maybe it could help to speak to elders and you said if they're willing to do it we can do that so something that worries thinking about I hope that it is not explained did you explain to him though that that's because that's the pathway back to me y I guess I don't know what you mean by that that what you really want is for him to talk to me but that I've made it clear that you had to go through the elders and reconcile with them first and that's the reason that you are pointing your counselor in that direction I mean I guess I didn't all right I knew when I went to that done right but was your counselor aware of that oh I wasn't aware of it it's kind of boring that you are moving forward with divorcing me and so I did not know that I have any bearing on you what do you mean you have already told me that you didn't want to work on things with me anymore and that you were moving I never was divorcing mean so telling him or asking him if he thought it would be helpful to bring in may not but I mean you're not being honest right you're not being honest right now like you're talking to me and you and I both know that I said dozens and dozens of times that you needed to reconcile with the elders first so you're well aware that even if we get divorced you before you're going to have a relationship with me so you're well aware that even if I divorce you or even if I'm not speaking to you the only way to get back in with me is to go through the elders like
speaker 2: I
speaker 1: mean it this is not that was a path forward for us to what you're cutting out I don't I don't hear what you're saying I feel a little bit confused about what you're saying I guess I have an outside perspective because I thought like God yes I can't hear you but but it sounds to me like you're wanting to play dumb and you're wanting to pretend that since I was divorcing you you had given up on me and that you weren't trying to pursue okay so so so we're not playing dumb we both know what you're trying to do and what your objective is and we both know that when you're talking about involving an outside perspective from the elders it's still within the game of your primary goal of restoring your marriage so we don't need to pretend that like between you and I there's no point in pretending that you're not involving the elders as a means to your primary goal so it's just a question of whether you told your therapist that not a question of whether it's true because we both know it's true it's a question of whether you were being open and honest wage therapist about that fact I I would work as my primary goal of Therapies find out whether I'm not they're not at this point but it was probably press five if you're nothing of it I'm not they're not because and and that's not okay then he said what I don't think he knows how much are cutting in and out well let's cuz I can't tell I've been hearing very little of what you've said over the last 10 minutes very spotty sorry I want to figure out if I'm nuts or not because say that I'm for you and that it's hurt you and I don't want to do that and I don't understand and they married to me or not okay bye I can't I'm sorry I can't really hear you when you're cutting out so much okay well I'm sorry that you can't hear me I don't know why you hear me right now a little bit gold my therapies he I don't know how to make it better honey I'm sorry Gollum I. Peace not against Americans sorry I can't really hear you I mean it cuts in and out so much all right I don't think so I guess I'll let you go what I can't fix the phone I'm sorry sorry I don't I don't understand anything so kind of logistically um I just need you to recognize that it is very wrong for the children for you to make last-minute plans with them the way you think you're entitled to do and that they deserved security of knowing what's going to happen before it happens and it is manipulative and abusive for you to represent you being at some kind of a disadvantage as a parent and me being at some kind of Advantage as a parent by us mutually agreeing to reasonable like 24-hour notice and planning and it was really it really very very harmful when you may have those accusations a few months ago and it was really very bad of you to say those kinds of things again today you need to understand that you're completely wrong about that and you need to understand that you're trying to paint a picture in a way that actually puts you off a great advantage to me and that needs to stop all right and can I have the security of knowing that's over and whatever you want I want the security of knowing that the what would be considered universally reasonable which is to give somebody 24 hours notice to make plans is not going to be weaponized against me to make me look like you're being victimized out of time with your own children okay that's fine okay all right I'm sorry to suddenly doesn't work but I got to get back with my goodbyes what and I'm going to keep working on myself and I hear about you okay bye-bye