speaker 1: 
speaker 2: this call may be recorded hey and how you doing can you hear me yeah how are you doing making in there how are you doing I was just asking you if you have a Tinder account I think I had one for a few days just to see what online dating was like and what you should be in for if I had to do that which is basically not in for anything because it is awful well I mean obviously if if you're on the hook up platform but I said do you have an account I had one I deleted you didn't sound very sure about that the first time I asked I thought you only asked me one time and I just told you the answer no I asked you and you said I think I had one for a few days and then went along side explanation that didn't clarify whether you were certain that you had one for a few days or whether you think you had one for a few days well I don't remember if it was tender but I had an online dating account to see what that was like in which I purposely did not have any online dates whatsoever I think I only had one person that acted interested and I told them specifically that I wasn't interested in doing any sort of dating yeah but I think the part that's not clear as your level of certainty that you deleted it I think that's after a few days I've been through and deleted them but I got that verification code so I'm confused if you reactivated it or but you said I deleted them I don't think it's clear to me that you have any certainty that you deleted your account because I've asked you like many times you have an account and I did not getting a clear answer I'm getting an I think what makes it confusing is you just sent me a verification code for it so I thought it went away I don't know but the petition code for it now took away and it's just not activated it's just not clear to me whether you have any certainty that you deleted it that's you've not my understanding was that I deleted it you still sure that you did I feel one hundred percent sure that I thought I did yeah I mean I'm assuming you were aware of figured out at some point that it's a hook-up app right I think there's people on there that you for that and there's people on there that use it for dating but you're aware that there are actual reputable dating services I also signed up for what is it single I didn't find it that much better to be quite honest with you well it's I mean yes better you know it's better however that I think that tells you that you are thinking about being with another woman when you've never even been yes when you've never even been alone before you know what I mean I'm not we're not talking about an area where it says you two years to get over me and then it just you two years to realize that you would like to be with somebody and then took you two years to adjust to you know the idea of figuring out what kind of person you're interested in you you have an idea that if you we're divorced you would be looking to remarry which tells me that you don't want to be alone I think you're making a lot of assumptions there know well let's see why the entire experience told me that I want nothing to do with any of that so absolutely I I get that I get that the online thing was a stupid idea and I but I'm saying the fact alt-rock if there was a person in real life I mean you could probably name five people you met at Honda lake so you'd be interested in getting to know better that wage I'm not talking about whether you'd be likely to find your next wife any like that's not funny and it's not okay for you to say that that's not true you're you're you're a liar you don't need to lie about that I would not date somebody from honey like it's not true yet ever true Dustin that's not I'm not interested in anybody that's not true why are you calling me to argue about I'm not in this because I I think that you're I think I think you're approaching this conversation from the same and I want to get back with you and I would be jealous that you want to date somebody else and so you need to let that go because that's not what I'm talking about I'm talking about say that okay well I don't need you to keep like making excuses for why you're interested in online dating as the opposite of your interest in online dating and I'm not accusing you of wanting to change my date I'm saying my huh several times already oh the the lie was about Honey Lake can you hold for a second hey I'm sorry who called you yeah yeah I only said lie because I know that would they people that you've met in their life this year oh and I wouldn't I'm not interested in dating anybody that that's not true you might not be interested because your Pursuits being but that's completely different than having a conviction that you want to live single for the next fifty years you said I'm saying I recognize what I want to be for my wife I don't want anybody else is not my wife I right right that's not what I meant I bet that there was a time when you were able to recognize that being with me was outside of your control exactly with me is outside of your control I'm not saying that you now I think you desire that I divorced so you can date somebody else I'm saying now I have a recognition that you have a capability of thinking about money
speaker 1: you
speaker 2: having a New Life After divorce you're capable of contemplating that as a possibility okay I think your assumptions about my desire or ability to date other people are impressed but not sure how to say that you have a choice I didn't say that you had the desire for that I didn't say that you have a desire for that and I didn't even say that I know that you have the capability you would have that people this year that you would have an interest in dating that you would I'm not saying you do but I'm saying you would I can see that you don't want to be alone the fact that you would think that being divorced means you need to find a new partner it shows me that you're a person who doesn't want to be alone that you think you know like when I told you that I thought that divorce are you meant that I was just going to be single forever that's that's not where your brain is or has been you didn't I mean I guess I got the impression after our counseling session Thursday that you don't have any future together it was about how you felt hello this counseling session what I can't hear you I'm not getting any audio I mean it's it's like fervor I said no honey only reason I go to our counseling session we only I'm still going at all as I care about you and I just hired to restore a relationship and have a copy home and press this month but go to the things in the but none of the things in the session reflect any of that there's nothing you said the whole session that I I didn't I didn't hear you say anything that reflected love or concern for me you said terrible and I thought I can't continue to put myself in the situation of you taking really good things that I've done for you and really really good strong as Brave honorable things that I've done for our family and our children and have you twist them around into something that's distorted and ugly I couldn't I couldn't believe how I couldn't believe how you misrepresented the caring about a family while you're at how do you make enough to ask about why you had checked into Honey Lake and you you tried to make it out that I harassed you and constantly badgered you about your suicidality and make ridiculous demands and won't let it go took it go would you've been the one to bring it up every time and you were bamboozling me at the time to think that the only reason you were at Honey Lake was to work on your personality disorder like I said it was fair for me to be asking the questions I asked for the sake of trying to help our family and instead you told Matt that I was harassing you Non-Stop about suicidality that was terrible I can't continue to expose myself to that kind of distorted lie about me and this way I couldn't I couldn't believe that you were making such as issue about one week she wants me to come over and fix things at the house with the next week she won't talk to me at all as if I'm this completely erratic bipolar unpredictable on-again off-again on-again off-again and I didn't spend an hour and a half explaining to you in great detail how our phone conversations were affecting our children and they have is the intelligence the Courage the fortitude to put the boundary in place that's going to protect our children from having a screwed-up childhood like you did like these are understand about the same issue then me being present at our house and doing things to serve you and spend time with our children that is obviously edifying for them like that's got nothing to do and be dead on the phone I think that it would be after I think it would be awesome if we're able to accept that our marriage isn't going to work and we were able to have a peaceful prepare examination Shippensburg where it would be normal for you to come in to help and do things and it would be normal you know for you to actually care enough to schedule time with the kids on the team and for me to know that your behavior at drop-off and pick-ups is going to be safe for them to witness make those would be some things that we might actually be able to work on Interfaith I wasn't trying to say also and didn't say that you were harassing me at Honey Lake actually. Most one hundred percent definitely suspect that I was there for suicidal ideations because of your conversation with Brianna and so you were absolutely fishing for me to tell you that no no no it wasn't because I needed you to admit that because you were trying to turn me that the whole reason you were there was just to work on a relationship and that dishonesty will be dead that dishonesty ended up being you know you did you did told me that yesterday the whole the whole reason I'm here would say that's the whole package here that's the whole reason I'm here you said that phrase many times know and you tried to repeatedly get me and tell you I was there cuz I was suicidal and I told you suck out their bowl and talking about I never even lying and say the whole thing. I wasn't comfortable telling you that's not a lot of people it's would have been fine if you were just there to work on that and not there to try to lure me back into a relationship with you if you were honest with me and you said Aaron this is my journey home my privacy and I don't want to talk about it that'd be fine but when I was there so you could leverage the fact that you're at that facility you leverage the fact that you were at that facility repeatedly to try to lure me into thinking that you have this same side of a level of commitment to working on your personality disorder and that is the only nobody there actually thought that I had a personality disorder so that that it's not even in the cards at that time or even in the vocabulary at that time but I would I would have one hundred percent there to work on our marriage that's not an accurate that was not but that's not fair to me to think that you were a healthy individual who went to them without nobody said that I was a hundred percent healthy or wouldn't be at a dental clinic to hear what I have to say I have nothing to say and I've had to start over four times I have one thing to say please let me say it is not reasonable for you to interrupt me the same thing every time it's need to get out a piece of paper and write notes about what you would like to say to me later cuz you're scared will forget it so you get out a piece of paper what is the Wayside but you don't want to hear me I was born in the area okay the dynamic of that was the was that you were there for some extreme disorder problems and in 30 days that's what they needed to treat you for they can't take a man who's suicidal and say listen you're never going to get better you're flawed at the core you will never be able to love somebody like they can't do that because then you turn around and kill yourself but if you went there a well man who had zero pts do you like you did in September when I recommended you go zero depression like you did in September when I recommended you go boss wings iety like you did in September when I recommended you go zero suicidality like you did in September when I recommended you go then they would be able to work on Thursdays underlying issues that I was telling you you needed to work on but when you go there for all of these mood disorder problems and then you want to convince me that you're in an emotional state and you're presenting symptoms consistent with what would be able to receive treatment for deeper underlying issues than I am being Bamboozled into a place of thinking that it's safe to speak to you on those terms and thinking that it is safe to speak to your counselors on those terms that was not the case and it is not fair to take a woman who is in as vulnerable a position as I was in at that time and have her operating with a system that is that powerful and that financially advantaged against me without me knowing the fact that everybody else in the equation knows asking me to enter that situation with you knowing something and Nathan doing something that I don't know is manipulative towards me and is not protecting my heart and my my life so I if you said to me I'm here for me I have stuff I don't want you to know about I need privacy while I work through my issues I would have given it to you off but when you're calling me Non-Stop and saying I'm only here to work on our marriage I need to I can work on this if you don't tell them about how I manipulative that's not really honest because I don't know that you lied to them about all our phone calls when I was in Cape Cod and you were planning a trip to Florida if I don't know that they I don't know that they think that I took all your liquid assets so you now have no money then that's not fair to me to have to talk to them with them knowing some Ally that I don't know that they think that why I don't know that they think that I maneuvered behind the scenes to get you out of our house and in a hotel and homeless and I don't know like those are all really villainous things for a woman to do that would actually cause a man to have PTSD and would actually cause them to want to kill himself and so it's not fair for you to act like oh yes I came here and I convinced them that I'm the villain and I told them that I'm the villain and I told them all these terrible things that I've done to my wife and I told them that I need help so that I don't keep doing these terrible things to my wife I'm just here to get to the root cause of all my issues that have caused me to be so bad to you tell me that to lure me in and nobody tell me that know you're actually there because everybody knows you want to kill yourself because your wife did these horrible things to you. So for you to frame it tomorrow like I am meddling or like I won't give you your privacy or like I harass you or like I wasn't sensitive to your emotional vulnerability God tells me that you are not a safe person for me to communicate with about anything because you take every good honorable intelligent thing I do and twist it's just something that it's not that makes me look really bad I'm sorry that you're hurting here and I'm not sorry I'm not I'm not okay I'm not hurting Dustin okay I'm telling you. You said a lot about me that I didn't think it was an accurate representation and I don't want your view of the the reflect things that are inaccurate but I'm not telling other any of that I would like to First address you as my wife that I love and care about I am doing that's what I know how to get us through this and when you say that I've done things that have hurt you or haven't navigated well I never say that this is not a battery also and you're not interested in a new every time that you tell me this is about my can you interrupt me anymore because this is about you know what it takes to get me to not interrupt so don't say it anymore I told you when I went to Honey Lake very early on after multiple inquiries from Hue bulb by always that I was I was little that crazy where are your conversation occurred before we had regular ongoing conversations with one another while I was saying and I told it to you on a vulnerability because you were my wife and I want you to know me as a whole person that is what I was experiencing then and it was challenging then I was struggling in that way because I was feeling hopeless about addressing these issues between us as we can never be I'm the same page about a lot of things if they're not and they I intend I Thor for but over 40 different how long I was there all of my interactions with my therapist their home we're not centered on stopping me from being suicidal they were all centered at my 10:00 still Direction and finding out why when I have conflict I made it dissidents life experiences and the reason that that is a concern for me is that I care about your hearts and I want to be a good husband for you and I want us to live in peace and to be able to love one another while and that is why I asked them to have you involved and that's why I asked you to try and be involved I know but that's why I needed you to be honest with me I have worked with a lot of professional psychologists Wayne and I have raised the Specter of my mother's history of dishonesty and the allegations that you off against me of being dishonest I have but that is a primary concern of mine and what I need to explore to try and get to the bottom of some of what's going on I don't know the efficacy of all of their stuff but I do know that they work with a lot of it's honest people and they get the drug test to compare what the person is saying to reality which means that they can't just ask somebody to know if they're lying dead and for you they won't bother to compare anything to actual data because you're not on drugs so you seem reliable I don't think they base that on drugs honey why do they give people drug tests a lot of might go there there to rehab why don't they just ask them did you use drugs this week they do since they then why do they bother with the tires they could just tell by asking him whether they're telling the truth or not right I think they're familiar with people on drugs lying quite a bit they would know by asking them you're not dealing with people who have seen what was actually happening you know what I'm saying I do and that is specifically why I told them yeah and I'm saying that's why I but that's why I needed to know all the lies you have told them I mean I was necessary if you think I tried to convince I'm not a phone sorry now you're right all right I don't I don't know what I guess with them as I knew how to be I was no you told them you told them that I knew that you were going out of town overnight in July and I was bad about that when I was calling that I kept calling and over I called you over and over and that was why you blocked my phone number but you immediately unblocked it the next morning that one I told them I took all our money did you tell them that you took did you tell them that you're the one who transferred all the money into a secret account from me how does how is that know what's in their nose but it's in fact that I took all their buddy well then like 60,000 miles you didn't tell them that we paid back a loan that was overdue it's just don't get it yes it was it was a balloon did it balloons the year before yeah I have the I have the know I have the amortization schedule that you wrote out and it had a balloon on it. you mean the negotiation that you made under false pretenses a few weeks before who you didn't tell my Dad how much that you were in when you went over to his house senate donate I don't think it's right for you to go around telling people that I took $60,000 of our joint assets check it out of our checking account and use it to pay off a loan that we had negotiated to not pay off at that time I didn't. About you at all ever that I yeah but you're acting like that long wasn't due and it was it was do it bold no it wasn't it was it was it was in full editor with your dad who had already negotiated to extend it out years and years I was supposed to have thirty years amortization and group together with Dad just weeks prior to that and you didn't tell him that you were in Crazy debt and you didn't tell him that you're missing payments left and right told about high interest rates and all the late fee that's something every creditor I know but you know that as a credit you deserve to know all the fact though that knew what you were talking to him that any creditor deserves that information if they're going to make a decision like what you said yesterday it's wrong for you to get somebody to enter into a third year agreement well you should have told him you should have give him in him the full information that he deserved in order to make that decision as a creditor and as soon as he had the information that every creditor deserves to have he made a decision to ask for it back as all nationally agreed there's nothing else I can think about that with that would send that to me said the thirty years but you would not well in the Life head in relation to paying bills and managing credit you now recognize that you were not well in the head in relation to manage bills and credit he recognized it too and he had every right to collect accordingly and it it is wrong for you to tell your lawyer that I took $60,000 to pay off a debt that was not do it alone that day it's wrong for you to tell that it's well it is it's not it was due in full no it wasn't it was it was I don't care doesn't affect Equity like it's just the fact that's what happened and I talked and you're saying that I'm lying I told them fax Sacrament live all the facts I gave them the amortization schedule that you prepared with your own hands and you present them to the Creditor it's you agreed upon and is in writing it represents that that represent the actual agreement so it's not relevant in a couple of weeks before okay this is what I did you did you went over to his house to get him to agree to extend it for 30 years with that return them ready to get him to agree to anything you said that would be great there's okay well I wasn't there for that conversation but all I know is that it was new it was well past due you would missed any payments to him over the years and that it should have been paid in full and you never aware of the fact that there were missed payments and they'll you know guys that are getting it for us I didn't know about your missing it to the other creditors mean either a missed payments to him but the fact that he's extending your grades on something that was chest do is nod save as because we had already agreed that we would revisit it on the date that we did I think that's I think. At that point because it was off having sex work full and he's just to make sure. It was by agreement between the two of us it wasn't okay I don't know I did a good that we had agreed I can't keep doing this I can't take me doing good things really good things really honorable really break really righteous things and have them Twisted by you in this way to psychologists to lawyers to judges like you're just not a safe person for me to know that my honorable efforts are going to be represented honorably I can't keep doing this I can't live this way I can't take a reservation I haven't misrepresented anything so I guess I guess my problem you feel about your your perceptions of my good behavior make me sick I haven't represented any of my perceptions about your behavior only stated facts of what happens I've got no problem with it but you disagree I disagree that you're going to my dad and getting him to say that you don't have to pay what was due a year ago and that he'll extend the grace to you took a year ago because we had already had an earlier agreement to extend it for that year he made a copy of already had an earlier agreement to visit the amortization on the date that we did so the month they when you say it was due a year ago that is not so it's not true you didn't go over to Dad's house because it was a date that you had already established on the calendar to revisit anything that was wrong time. To discuss what we would do not and a feel like I have been really really really really good to you and really supportive of you and really grateful towards you and really loving towards you regarding your suicidality I don't feel like I had asked you or Badger to you or any of those things that you told that that I did you just have to tell me anything but I think that you harassing me or badgered me he told me that you asked me off over and over again needling me for the answer and I eventually gave it to you which is exactly what you have completely fine and you about it I brought it up that I can that I've been continuing to do it 6th January and I have it I have it I don't remember saying that you brought it up constantly but you have write it up and I'm okay with you bringing it up when I'm not okay with is you bringing it off and then acting like I can't talk about it well the only time I was ever need to talk about it the only time I ever ever played the only time I remember ever bringing it up was to set that boundary and that's reasonable I'm not saying that you're not allowed to talk about those feelings but I'm saying for you to actually kill yourself if you're okay with that something that is wrong that's something that you as a father actually said that I'm not allowed to talk about it or you would divorce me if you're talking about it in like three days like I don't know how I can get that I need to you know get this through this for my children and know that my children need me and I'm seeing so hopeless like those would be normal wage to be talking about your feelings but for you to say it in terms of nope they're not getting any child support so you don't get to tell me what to do it's my decision well that's too bad that's what I'm doing like that's not okay it's not a note we need to be able to say page that it's not okay for you to kill yourself that's what I okay thing to do that would be a bad set against your children it would be a bad sin against me and it's wrong and again it is it's wrong it's a sin against me it's a sin against your children it's not okay in any scenario well I don't get it it's not going to be able to hold that over your head or talk about it at all I'm not interested in that home and then later you want to say that you're struggling with following through with your commitment that's fine lots of people struggle with following through with commitments but everybody in the world makes a commitment to kill themselves the day that they become pregnant or make somebody else practice because you aren't the only person in this world who relies on to for provision and nurtured so that's a commitment I don't know I don't I think if you're going to leave me I'm not going to have an actual relationship with those kids you probably need to find somebody that you actually want in your life yeah so it doesn't those are things that we can talk through like what level does have no is right for you and I'm like what would bring you the most satisfaction with your kids and what What About Love time it's going to work with like your work schedule it's those would be healthy fix and I'll see you think about a mother and father to raise their kids that says healthy so all things considered say that they took their house not from 4:10 to 5 days early see and they're so interested in years I see infinitely more than they see me now so I bother with them back in November and December that that's the most time they've ever that's the most time they've ever spent with you and I thought that was really healthy does I mean other than what I consider the abuse that was happening at drop-off and pick-ups the time that they were spending with you and actually having divided attention was really good and I can't be with you it's not good for the children what you did on Easter you're not capable of seeing how dysfunctional your Easter Behavior was and I think that's I think that's what you've been trying to tell me all along is that you're not capable of seeing it and if you're actually not capable of seeing I agree with you and I apologize about that but it shouldn't have taken off of back and forth for you to get to this point it shouldn't have taken you trying to misrepresent the situation to see a and tell him that I had an agreement with you beforehand yeah he said that you told that we had and we didn't you ask that you picked them up for you to come over this credit and I told you could but that doesn't mean that we have this past that I would look at them like here to bring it into something else by making it big that we have to look at them there was no agreement I said yes you can kind of read the paper that's the agreement wage yeah but there was no there was no promise that I would look at them first like promise you so you acted like I was changing our agreement oh she said I could shred papers and then I get there and all of a sudden I can't shred papers that kind of education is me to third parties no but you could have there was no reason you couldn't have showed up to me I wasn't doing you know what I'm saying like you acting like this somehow had something to do with me reneging on my offer to let you shred them is absurd and you've managed to talk about this for probably well over six hours making all kinds of absurd defenses of your behavior that was found talking about every six hours but not Behavior you talked to me about it for extended periods of time or occasion you'd like to see a about it for an extended period of time you talked to Matt about it for a pretty big chunk of our first counseling session like I don't want you to deny off that talking about this and you defending your behavior on Easter has taken up a huge courses of Our Lives this is not the same as you on Easter looking at me and say wow I can't believe I got that bent out of shape about that I'm have no idea what is wrong with my brain and my heart that would make me behave that way towards my old life and make me do something like that instead of my own children I'm really sorry in until I can figure out what the heck is going on with me I'm a much as I want to be with you hey I'm going to have to stay away from your house because I love Simon too much to risk damaging him any further what what I'm saying there's a difference in you actually looking at the situation yourself and seeing your abuse for what it is versus needing many people to spend extended periods of back and forth back and forth back and forth where you go every which way trying as hard as you can to make your wife look like the bad guy in the situation and I'm not trying to make like a bad guy you're telling me that I read eggs onto the reboot that we had you telling me that I was unreasonable for wanting to see inaccurate information like all these things that distort is something that characters Sonic yes you did yes you did you said over and over I just said that it didn't get your information I had already been given the accurate data I didn't say that you were unreasonable I said that I gave you. Info and this was inaccurate in for me to want to see it I never said that that's unreasonable yes you did yes you did that's the whole point of your your argument to me your argument to see a tomb at your local thing was that made no sense for me to arbitrarily demand that you have to give me an accurate data when I already have the accurate data now you're trying to convince any of that you didn't see anything that you're unreasonable like not quit alarm so you definitely definitely definitely were representing me as unreasonable and I don't I don't I don't and I don't I had sent with the trauma of having to deal with and you suck like it's terrible that you ever ever ever had a fight your mind that you should make Aaron be the one at fault in this situation and then it's terrible that anybody in any of this I'm just trying to help us get along a it's not a reasonable because your wife was doing something dead laid no sense that's not helping us to get a law but that is showing up your true colors your true heart your character and what Behavior we can continue to expect from you because it's consistent with the behavior that we've seen from you your entire life and right now you're not even owning what you've put me through and having to get you to the point of admitting that you're no you're trying to say I can you don't see that that's not the equivalent of calling you unreasonable today that regardless of that I'm sorry I didn't show you the paper Thursday I'm sorry that we had to have the conversation I'm sorry that I didn't agree with you earlier I'm sorry I'm sorry what about what about the outage why would you make the whole argument to him my view of the situation and I apologize that it took the that's my concern is that your whatever situation like that is really concerning to me and I understand that you have such poor judgement that what you were saying to see a bad sense of your own braids for more than everything that I said was accurate so I know it was adjusted it wasn't it was inaccurate that I shouldn't have wanted to see the papers okay that is not a reasonable imbalances in any human would make of the situation but you fully believe that and you fully expected other people to buy into that not trying to get anybody to buy anything like yes you fully expected people to go she should be snatching papers from you Chuck was your expectation was that people would say your wife should snatch papers from you she didn't have the right to just make the bands like that on you that was that made sense, your brakes and that is concerning because that means that you're the kind of guy who can rationalize abusive Behavior like what you were exhibiting that day and that's what's going to drive the decisions you make is your distorted entitled ways of thinking I'm sorry what what what what are you that it is I know but you only ever sorry about things when when you've not only gotten caught but you have to try to defend yourself for lunch hours like I totally understand that we should have I should have just giving you the information and have to talk about it has no data on them and that would have given you money and know that they had no data on them and I would have been more loving way to deal with it that was frustrated and short with to have that patience and show you that care and you deserve that I'm sorry I'm also concerned about how you take stuff like that and then try to blame me for it to other people I'm really not and I'm just trying to explain the situation so that they can help me understand what they on everyone people have a bad opinion yeah but in your own praying things are in your mind but online it's in your own mind that I should have given the money back to my dad you're representing that you don't have a problem with I think it takes that amount of money I mean all right that's not true that's the truth know $150,000 and this month obviously more than more than $150,000 for a maximum it was covering expenses over an extended period of time that you exactly looking at Precision non-stop instead of just one day and then telling me about immediately you hit it for years hold on that yours is worse well it doesn't matter I'm not mad at you about sure if it matters it matters is it that I have battery issue that it support back that I took the money not that I used it to pay off a debt that I just like that's on public record right now without any any any context or any known issues it doesn't hurt me but it should break your heart that you would think of that what what I think about this. And that was what what Thursday hey Jessica okay okay hello hey I actually have to be able to hear I wasn't able to hear a single word you said it's not a lot I yeah I couldn't hear any of it last part out I'm sincerely sorry that I didn't get the paperwork up front I'm sorry that Simon said there was a problem moved and had to experience that sorry about it so much and have your point of this perception thing that is dead higher point of all of the all of this like a logical professionals that I've interacted with
speaker 1: yes all right
speaker 2: into the villain it's the light bulb had for which I think we were both dissatisfied with I am doing all of this so that I can learn how to love you you're free to move in a way but dead go about the cared for and that's I trying to make against the way that we've always done it and you know I'm not you know I'm not like that I'm not asking you to make me feel loved and cared for I is this an even about that I'm not saying that you're asking me for that I'm saying that I want you to do that because I care about you but what you need to focus is not that what you need to bring is not destroying the children's lives like I'm just trying to protect them from you it just it's in The Fault by thinking that I need some kind of emotional junk here like don't go emotionally film you so much money that I'm enjoying the last so much and I'm willing to stay with you even when you're destroying our children that's not helpful I don't need an emotional anything at this point I need you to have a commitment by your behavior in front of them it's in in your radishes and your inability to make long-term plans that are best for them what you just told me that if I divorced you you know they were going to need a different father in okay but that's but that's so impatient a different from what you know
speaker 1: you would
speaker 2: make an extent your coworkers about how children equally hit back and forth between two different houses every other week in order to be healthy and well no problem but that's not the case probably the best let me try and cook but I don't know what right what I can't hear you what yes but you have to take off with a real father that you suck yes yes yes absolutely absolutely but what you were doing in November and December damage them psychologically with you doing your big I miss you could so much Daddy safe side I just started so lonely and so sad that's called emotional incest wage I thought that I missed them a lot which was pretty well yeah you told the newest item only on Halloween before you went ahead Marketplace yes I have I don't recall that the only time I told him that I was sad that I ever involved was when I it doesn't matter if you would call it off it's never ever going to be children who didn't experience their dad telling and they got a green light jewelry calling it doesn't have anything to do with whether they experience it okay and I'm sorry I don't I'm saying what I'm looking at my children and I have extreme concerns that been going to bed I have healthy adult relationships they're on a path to destruction and so my focus and all of this is trying to figure out how to model healthy relationship in a way that's going to give them half a chance in life and you're so fixated on getting need to feel your love which is counterproductive to the actual goals that you're missing all the payout or damaged and that's Michael to I know but for you if like secondary it's not I think that the way that you show them a healthy relationship is by loving and caring for one another to start with a commitment for them to not have to grow up knowing there that said that that was like a commitment to yourself that would just be like building back number one I thinking about your children with emotional health as adults I wish I could make that commitment he called you can have a fear you can have a fear that your name for the follow through on your commitment but that doesn't that's got nothing to do with you making the decision it's no different than quitting smoking like you can choose to click and I think you can you can set a quit date you can get the products to help you you can tell other people in the fact that there are people who live or the fact that not everybody gets it completely right on the first try is no excuse for not making the commitment the first place huge burden like it just makes it worse just makes it worse no not I have the additional burden of I want to kill myself but I promise that I won't so therefore I'm screwing that up like I don't I don't need that additional it's not as additional burden that's just the fact that it gives you know the Bedrock it's a Bedrock of this is not an object and I'm really struggling with learning this right now what am I going to do with the disparity between my desire and my commitment that's something we're struggling with saying that just makes me want to do it for you know then you're not thinking about your children I think it's debatable whether they're better off with me in the picture or not talking about your level of involvement post-divorce is a healthy and reasonable conversation to have and there's all kinds of I forget what this is all about I don't know I feel like you want us commitment so you can go ahead and divorce me like that's the primary rationale for me to say that it's got that last time I filed wage who reaction to the final was not good for the children that at all yeah I remember that the things that you weren't going to state of mind that I could even talk to you the fact that you would filing false statements about me in Port thinking that somehow something terrible was going to happen if you didn't get 50% of the custody off that all was not really really stopping and going okay what is this look like from a child's perspective okay that's something that might be something that might be a better arrangement for this year versus something that will be a better Arrangement two years from now that we could make a gradual transition into so that it's not shocking to their experience and their sensibilities like none of that was coming into play for you it's not showing have lots of conversations about that but I don't know I guess I don't understand you an English talked about how the holidays might be different and I guess I don't understand what that has to do with it's bending like you want to commit to the so that you could be comfortable supporting me absolutely not well I can tell you I will try a I'm telling you I just don't feel like your motives and all of this are centered around your responsibilities as a father seems like this are centered around getting your emotional needs met found in romantic partners oh well I disagree with that I think I think there's an actual debate about when they're they're better off they part-time father and they're like well how about how about those about those flies how about both how about I married somebody else please whatever able to bottle stable adult relationships for them and they don't have to wonder why their biological father didn't care enough to be there for them to maybe they have both maybe they have a lot of lives maybe they get to see a lot of healthy adults okay but that's that I wasn't either I don't I don't know that I can go through that and number two not sure that that would actually be good for them seems like it would be potentially not but but I think to do that I think it would be I think it would be okay if went and started a new life there's nothing left okay about that also for the kids I think that I think that I could I think that I could make that work and they get me okay I understand that that's what you want at this point but I don't think that there's personally I don't I don't think that there's a scriptural basis for any of that being okay I think it's okay for you to get divorced they don't think I can address to get remarried I don't I don't think it's okay I don't think it's okay on your end because because you have been engaging in destructive behaviors in front of them and so I agree that the divorce would be wrong on your end and I agree that moving on with your life would be wrong on your end then I found that killing yourself would be wrong on your end but the solution to that is not saying that I have to stay married to you because marriage is right like on my end I have to do what I have to do to protect my children so the person who is in sin and that divorce as far as I'm concerned would be on your conscience and you would answer Scott for it because I don't I don't think that you grasp the extent of how much you have been selfish and feeling titled I don't I don't think you know how different things would have to be in order for us to be together you like to tell me I don't think I can I mean if you have you quit smoking I want to do I just know no I don't I don't get that I don't get that okay I don't get it I don't get it you don't get that I wanted me dead not really them no not really the diary I mean if if that was how you felt then I don't really understand why you're not fighting so hard for your right to hide paperwork for me that's not consistent with being that you want to be dead if that were the case I I don't really understand why you're fighting so hard to get somebody else to believe that I'm arbitrary fiber a second cuz I are you saying that you don't believe that I want to be dead I'm saying that your behavior is not consistent with that and saying if if you were dealing directly with you about those papers because you had started like at communicating with me or answering my calls so it was evident that you were feeling again more serious about divorcing me and then I felt like you looped me into bringing papers to shred so that she could get them from me and squirrel them away which is basically what happened and that that was pretty interesting but the cave your life those concerns you were having are not consistent with you are being ready to just lay it all down and let it all go and not fight it anymore so because just because I want to be dead doesn't mean that I don't have sort of a modicum of self-respect but somebody shouldn't trust me into self-respect doing something to take wow I can't believe you just said that you think that your behavior with self-respecting I felt like first of all I want to be clear about my frame of mind when I brought those papers over the fed them and you and yes yes like Oh by represented that I could be one thing but we're potentially trying to get I don't know evidence or something from me to divorce me but didn't tell me in advance and that the evidence Dustin it doesn't even make sense the money wasting complete waste of time because all you're going to do is just take both information and try and that doesn't make sense Destin that's why they didn't make sense to give you the papers I gave you the accurate papers but they are annoying oh I don't I think that I'm saying it didn't happen you actually took the papers and actually I didn't read them it's not paranoia that's what actually happens low wage but you understand that they wouldn't have gotten confiscated if you had shown them to me right I have no way of knowing that now but regardless of that well it doesn't matter I think so I know exactly so how would they be used against you like I mean you can't file them in the court and say that they have money I don't know I don't know what you you could you could possibly if it was ready to lay it all down and I say this because I am a person who actually did I actually was ready to let go of my life like probably twenty-five years ago because nothing to do with like I'm talking about emotions of what was happening in that moment like I've been I guess what I'm saying is your moment-to-moment of ocean are not consistent with your long-term goals you are erratic and you do things that don't make logical sense except within the framework of insane emotional reactions that cause you to think things that make sense moment that don't make sense to people who aren't having those same chemicals hormonal brain disturbances that you're experiencing that's true then I need help people people who aren't feeling what you are feeling cannot intellectually come to the conclusions that you're coming to based on your emotions that you are completely completely convinced that you are right on an intellectual that I'm right about what you were completely convinced that that was a righteous Behavior and it was it was only caused by your fear and earn it you spent week you spent weeks telling people but that what you did made sense you didn't spend weeks eight the people will I behaved erratically and scarily and unpredictably and creepily because I wanted to be in control but that was having whatever frustrations or unreasonable but then have anything to do with that nothing wrong I think it was just reading was that there's nothing to control the data whether I was able to file them in court you were trying to control system example of what you could do with it what happens when you come home you were clearly scared that some bad thing would happen and you were clearly acting on that fear I think it wasn't last person gets credited when they should have been there's no should have dusted do not see that you're reverting to defend the indefensible behavior again right now can you not recognize how frustrating this is for me to 10 minutes ago think that I am safe and secure and having a band page to who absolutely believes that that behavior was destructive and now I'm suddenly stuck on the phone with them with a man who thinks that that behavior is justifiable do you not see how unsafe you our what why are you trying to tell me but you're also trying to act like it wasn't based on anything it wasn't based on anything yeah but clearly there's a reason that you're doing these things clearly there's a reason that you're able to get your intelligent brain to think that these completely destructive behaviors make sense but they don't make sense to other people I'm trying and I don't think you are destined and I'm not also I'm not I'm just I'm not okay with all the stuff that you said about Aaron and Jackie and Matt and see a like I can't trust somebody who thinks that way relax here in about our last conversation I said you said that they hold their selves in high they have such high opinions of themselves and you said they do open up a problem there no listen listen listen in fact of life that they have conflict amongst themselves and then an hour later that natural please don't interrupt please don't interrupt it to you. Themselves you said I never said that they have high opinions of themselves okay I don't remember that but I think they do have opinions of themselves why they stopped updating themselves about that. I'm not talking about that I'm not talking about getting an example of how within one conversation I can direct quote something that you said an hour ago. They told that I'm making it up you know what I wish my name were you with better I don't think that my memory is that far out of normal I don't think it's more than a standard deviation away from a normal person but I'm not trying to or myself I'm just giving you my actual recollection so to the extent that I get that wrong I'm sorry I really am but it's not safe for me but I'm getting wrapped up in that if you get but if you but that's my whole life is is you saying something and then when it's not convenient for you to hold that opinion anymore you say that you never said that I think are really hard person to have a conversation with you just flip around to whatever is admin or just for your argument argument in a movement the one minute it's advantageous to you everything that I think I think you're interesting that I think my kids think my I think my opinion about the way the others be themselves has been fairly consistent and you have a disagreement with me about that but they off and I'm saying that the whatever it is whether you think they have themselves in high regard or whether you don't agree with that statement either way way that you respond to really wise really badly really righteous people being willing to help you tells me that you are not a safe person may need to be with first of all we have three Elders that have said exactly nothing to me since I know that they all know that I was in Honey late for feeling so badly people that care about me and love me they have literally no regard for my mental well-being in the time. So you know exceptional and do not see that do you not see them on the floor in tears crying out to God for you no I don't do you not see do you not see that literally don't say anything to me off they haven't they pray for you all the time the fact that you are safe for them and the fact that they are wise enough to know that you're going to take the words they speak to you and twist them to be used against them like that's the last time you should new house with them was to take they're going to get another I think it's false to say that I twisted anything I represented things that were said to me, perfect Fidelity and when you conceptualize it as twisting it you're saying that it's oh you asked asked them independently and therefore that was wrong so what they said it's still there actual opinion like that you didn't handle it is a Godly way you didn't handle it in a way that were honored the fact that they are making big sacrifices in order to be able to offer these kinds of opinions to you on Thursday hey you didn't honor them at all and honorable way to handle it would be to say Jackie just feels so different than what Erin said can you and me and Eric Smith yeah can we get together in a room not can I write an email that is 4 pages long that points out every discrepancy and send it to my wife so my boss understands why I don't trust any of you anymore like I don't trust them any more I would have to make my own decisions. Give me advice that is different from one another with equal amounts of sincere commitment that their way was completely off the best way to handle it it just okay I feel like the position over this you already know you already know the points on which they were in agreement with you already know the points on which they didn't need to be in agreement and none of you nobody ever expected you to follow their advice on things that they hadn't made a group recommendation in to you about the need to follow their advice but it now you were going to them independently about what you should do with your court case law that wasn't something that they added some of them came to me and something that something that they as a team we're making a recommendation about they as a team we're saying that like many teens they there was a team of two of them and an opinion there was a chemo one that had a different opinion but it but they representation that they can't care about money today other than see who interacts with me quite a while have a republican you live with him you live with him I think that's having said a word to me since I was suicidal and they idea that they somehow have my best interests or anything interested in how well I'm doing it's just desire to say that you would say hey I know through our Word of Mouth that you were having a Suicidal Thoughts can you read me talk about that or are you doing better or anything really know how to leverage that you know how to leverage that her dead but suicidal ideation it's something that you could do and fans get $18,000 from your mom to something you can do and and you're talking to your wife on the phone about reconciling comes and stands the elders have to pretend that you're a fake person for them to talk to because you're not going to distort their words and their character now you anything I'm just saying that they did but you're not getting anything that you're not a salesperson for them to talk to your not recognizing the danger I'm not a person for them to talk to at all. confirmation with you that thing that you have some things that you don't talk to me at all I know because you should be the one going to win they don't owe it to you to go to Europe when you're replacing it to me and I don't feel like anybody ever owes me anything I'm just saying you said if they cared about me they would say hey I heard you're suicidal and then with them during the fact that you're danger to the I play is something else I'm just saying they right but if you went to them with a repentant heart to confess your sins against them and to find out what you can do to contribute to rebuilding what you broken your relationship with them and you find out what restitution they need in order to have security to talk to you again then there for giving people but you're acting like they owe it to you to pick them up in their families and homes way just because you decided you want to his way out I haven't put any wage what confirmed way I've only pointed out discrepancies the advice that they gave me so it's not clear to me that's not true you you disparage them in so many ways I can't even count locked up for like 40 days locked up with taking taking common things you were taking, things that less Honorable Men in other Church leadership bodies do to other people that are owned by two other people and we were affecting your vocabulary and your perception your way of describing that so that you could in three sentences or less get everybody to think that you're a victim of abuse that you did for forty days off so kind of locked up that's no kind of losses power on your own but you gain I didn't want that research other people's situations and crafts my birthday present that I did tell people what happened to be they smoking with them and know what happened to them to hear their stories and smoking with who wage other people have similar stories to you nobody else had that story it's not true anybody else we thought the church leadership in their marriage go ahead say it again there was nobody else who thought that their Church leadership meddled in their marriage billing so what would you prefer membership it's dealership Roland wet and the breakdown of the marriages of the other than the US horse only one that could be particularly related to what you're suggesting was there was a after there that had an inappropriate relationship and his church found out about it hey we all person there who was involved through a problem in his marriage separating no other people that had pretty much 3 thanks they didn't have didn't know that certain other churches name about it but they then have allegations of that sort of thing and do you ever talked about
speaker 1: well
speaker 2: I go to my court case forward can you consider the possible scenarios where you can you can see a scenario in which you might be able to be cooperative so helpful for what what you could be cooperative and helpful in moving our parts hello hello did you hear me I can't hear you I can't hear you I can't hear you yes okay so on your end I understand that you're not being abused by your spouse and you're not concerned about the negative kinetic business having on your children so I'm not really asking about from your point of view right obviously you have zero motivation to do what I'm talking about doing tell me about a call saying that I have to quit your job you're making statements about me that are false you're saying that I have no idea the impact that this has on our children which is incorrect and you're saying that I have no concern off can I use and then I would like to point out that since we've had finally two sessions couples counseling which is what's been represented in allegations of abuse against me during those sessions it was pointed out to you that your allegation of abuse was not actually accurate wage deserve exploring that's not true do you accuse me of gaslighting you and we're professional that that was not calculated between us a lot but your your life right now you're saying that I said Mark not he's abusing me right now and that said oh that's not bad fighting but that's a complete misrepresentation and this is part of life dangerous. Talk to you is that new Texans and misrepresent them in a way that is distorted character in a horrible way
speaker 1: yeah
speaker 2: I was I didn't I I am situated the exact scenario and I explained the extent to which I felt like you were talking about something that was factual like happened or didn't happen and I was reading that I wasn't comfortable with the way that you were trying to frame it as being a matter of perspective and I was explaining that it was confusing to be told that something's just my perception when I know that it has more to do with whether it happened or not and so I said I kind of feel like it's like almost a form of gaslighting and then said it was gas lighting and he pointed out but that was bad after characterization of what we were getting with I'm not fair it's not fair for you to act like I was accusing you of gaslighting or saying that you're abusing me as of now evidence that oh every time you think she's being abused any profession and we say it's just not like I'm not saying that I didn't say that or not saying that but that was not an example of me if you think you have abuse and that was not an example of being a single mom so to say that I made an accusation and and and got recruited by a professional is unfair it's unfair for you to accuse me of having accused you said you have to take a contact of it be a an open and supposedly safe environment for me to have an analysis of how I would feel about Iraq and you have to go ahead and continue to experience that so that we can work through these issues and not trying to call back later and tell me that I accused you of genocide and it would talk can't do that if you want that to continue to be a safe place for me to say our deal I was not saying that it was an example I wouldn't say anything I'm saying what happened in our syrupy and I think that we deserve to give that some time to play out in Boston area where I used the word gaslighting is not in any way representative of the things that I actually feel like fighting problem in our marriage well it's only a micro example because we've only participated in two sections that's sufficient the the smaller than micro example I am trying to use that as an example of the pattern of gaslighting in our marriage I wasn't saying oh you can't this is what he does he looks at this is what I'm referring to when I say that's the thing that that's what you're doing say that I am gaslighting is I was recruited I wasn't saying that it was it's not only the only had two sessions of couples therapy with a licensed psychologist and I think that we owe it to ourselves and our marriage no seriously no one taking care of it completely seriously and I can tell you the first session the don't talk to me that when I'm doing what I'm doing for you don't talk to me that way you're not entitled to ever speak to me again you have no entitlement to me I don't know you anything and you've not earned me I'm giving you a lot of Grace to talk to you on the phone right now and then giving you a lot of grades to talk to you with Matt and you don't deserve the grace and it's not good for your children is not good for your children today it wasn't good for your children on Thursday it won't be good for your children what time well I think that it could be better for our children to have two functional parents that can get along with one another and I think we have a chance to achieving that with Psychotherapy to get a chance of achieving work with you but obviously I am giving you a lot of grapes
speaker 1: that you
speaker 2: do not deserve I don't need you to understand that you can't what other is so like new talking about the difference between fact versus opinion and that's what I was asking I know but you're distorting that conversation into having something to do with my past allegations of abuse and that's not fair related to my past like it's fair because you lights that I was gaslighting you and I was talking about the difference between perception and truth I didn't I didn't I didn't I wasn't making an allegation in that moment but I but that would be like your gas lighting me and that the professional waiting on a conversation wasn't saying that it was I wasn't saying that it was it wasn't you were saying that it was is it saying that it wasn't paying that wasn't saying that it was I was talking about the difficulty of having somebody tried to I was talking about the difficulty of fact somebody try to convince me that seems that actually happened are just my perceptions I wasn't making a claim of abuse and it wasn't making an allegation of gaslighting and it's not fair for you to take the fact that I was in agreement with math but that wasn't really that it was pretty well on that that that wasn't really gaslighting even when I said it you can't take that to say oh it takes things are dead on Friday that's not fair I could not use that conversation Luminate with gaslighting is but I don't think it was a conversation about whether you are abusive or not it was a conversation about what's the right I know the understanding we were in a constructive way all of reading on our way to talk about and view the the dynamic of disgusting perception versus reality that was something that we were doing that was constructive and it don't just having to correct me because I was wrong and I don't feel like he was saying oh you're saying that you get a but you don't I'm I'm saying that we were trying to find a way to talk about a certain phenomenon and I felt like we were doing that in a good way and I'm really disgusted that you want to weaponize that against me now to make points that you're not abusive and that that's what tells me that these things aren't safe for me because of the way that you miss use them as a writer said you wanted to convince me anything but I didn't say know you're wanting to speak right now you want to convince me right now that I made allegations that got shot down by a professional and that to me that's a misuse but says what you're asking me to do is question whether I'm able to recognize gaslighting when I see it or not and I I don't appreciate that if if you had been engaging it in it and it was a clear-cut case then I would have been able to say so and I would have said so confidently but that's not what that conversation was about in any way I think we need to know what needs to be Aaron I don't deserve to ever see you or speak to you again and I would be humbled beyond belief if you would condescend to the level of talking to me with Matt again this week like that's that's what you need to recognize and feel in order to be safe for me cuz it's not something we need to do it's not something that's best for you I can't hear you is something that we needed to I think it's something that we scripturally I think that is what's best for our kids and I am know for you yes but not that we have a disagreement about that but my opinion I don't expect you to have the same opinion I'm just saying like if in order for us to have a future together you're going to have to get over your feelings of entitlement to me and if you're justified in your feelings of entitlement to me by saying that I have an obligation to our kids to continue to subject myself to something that's disruptive we have an obligation to save our marriage and life you just can't find that marriage is like what you're doing to try to save our marriage is damaging signal light fingertips you're you're not something to say by marriage by going that way and I am trying to fix that if you were going away from me and I help you stand on your own that I would say oh yeah you're seeing something that is Honorable that you're scripturally commanded you do but if you're trying to justify everything that you've ever done and you're trying to convince me that I'm a problem and you're trying to tell me that I have some scriptural obligation to subject myself to that and thought you telling me that no matter how much our kids are being harmed in this process it's worth it because overall they're going to benefit from their parents being together without their father having to change exactly yep and then you think that I have a scriptural obligation to continue to subject myself to emotional destruction at your hands that needs to change fundamentally because you're going to continue to think that you're entitled to things in relationship that you are definitely not entitled to you need to recognize that what you're getting need from you right now is a hundred percent great and nothing that I'm obligated to give hang and you honestly honestly my expectation from if I thought you were a godly man right for me to think oh this is a man who wants to please Google or is that I just don't speak to you again until you've spent at least ten hours with their and that you feel like your relationship with him is stable and you feel like your relationship with him has genuine Mutual Trust feel like your relationship with him on his side and feel like he's made up to you for anything that he hurt you with and you feel like you can fold the lies damned if I hurt you and and then back in the other direction like a man after God's Own Heart we prioritize those over Rico havoc on his wife and children everyday life a man after God's Own Heart with prioritize that over making demands that his life has a scriptural obligation to do what is emotionally destructive to herself and a scriptural obligation to do what is emotional negligent of her children State Attorney's office like the amount of man after God I mean after your wife and it's the same people with that you're perceived as simple to do things that are damaging on the card when you're not winning the only thing that I'm trying to get you to do is see if they call it just says me and I disagree that that damaging I provide am I doing that and it's something that you should be grateful that I'm stupid to the level of what to say to me that I have a scriptural obligation to it no matter how much time I see coming to myself and my kids is not is not a badly way to speak to me it's selfish entitled are you making those same demands of Arabelle because that has the same expectations for your other relationships it's it's not that you get to be a jerk to everybody in your life but only everybody in your life but only this one person has an obligation to continue to subject themselves to you whereas everybody off and just stay away in the other have to make restitution so right thing to do and peace in all of your relationships no I agree with that I was already contemplating how to approach possible future relationship with their know so I'm not doing it as a bridge to get to you it I want you to be happy I'd be happier with someone else I hope someday that that will not be true it hurts me to hear that you don't know that one I'd be happier with somebody else you can't activate with another man dead people but do you have the backlight to blue because I was complaining and didn't want him to go to the lake that you I'm sorry man who would never go with Paul people that he needed to block my phone number because I was complaining that he wanted to go to the length of a day off a fun like I've never said that to anybody I told them I block your number because I didn't want to argue with you about my decision to go to the lake overnight oats tell me a little bit and who wouldn't say that for me to imagine that I did that so but if your question earlier on in this process I thought the office so you do things like that all the time to me I don't do things like that all the time too you did not work towards you by not letting me see the papers that you were. Can you imagine me with a different mayor who's like ta you just said can I see what you're going to shred them to me and then give me a hug good like look making sense of not even accurate but I'm sorry I didn't tell you that figures I know like off I have what you know about me as a woman and as a bomb and that's why it's just imagine how my life when the heck like if it was a man in my life who behaved honorably faith in me can you not imagine what I would look like I think earlier on in this process or whatever I would have thought that maybe you would be happy with somebody else but now I'm honestly I'm not so sure about that regardless of that I was for you and your feelings I'm obligated to make myself into a good husband for you and delete you well it's not about my feelings I think can you tell me over the edge toward me I'm not talking about your feelings I'm talking about me I'm talking about having a man in the household he doesn't fit in those ways well that's what I'm talking about too I'm not sure I don't know you think there's something wrong with me I don't know I think a lot of our arguments are based on you're committing an intentional Distortion of the facts to benefit your own case that is true I wish that I could see those were clearly but I think that you wanted to hug and then pulled other people that I had an agreement with you but then all of a sudden want the man didn't matched you know that other men don't do those schools to the wise man who didn't do that kind of thing to his life but I wouldn't have that kind of thing happening in my life and I wouldn't have to be having arguments about that kind of thing I'm not causing that I didn't do an unusual thing for a woman I didn't behave dishonorably as a moment I'm being faithful and good and all I can continue to point out to you is that these arguments should not be happening is not on wife's place to criticize her husband it is not a wife place to tell her husband down it is not a wife husband to talk badly about her husband you need men in your life to do that so that I can be the one who's your building you up and talking positively of you and supporting you and pointing out your good qualities and having a life with you and I can't have a life with you when I'm the one who has to point out these egregious sins I can't have a life with you with CA takes an hour out of his wife to point out these egregious sins and then you turn around and you ignore everything that he told you and you tell me Anna counseling session the same tired story about having an agreement and already having the accurate data and things that they already told you did not hold water if you were listening to the wives that the holy spirit is speaking to you through then we wouldn't be having any arguments and you know what errands are my perception would not even come into play it wouldn't matter what my perception is it wouldn't matter what my parts are it wouldn't matter what my version of past events that wouldn't matter if I remember that the same as you remembered it none of that would matter because you wouldn't be having these conversations because you would be listening to the Holy Spirit speaking through wise other people in your life that's how he wants to correct you not through your wife you want me to imagine that the one who has a problem with conflict but I'm saying put me in a relationship with a man who doesn't put me in a relationship with a man who doesn't do these things in the arguments don't even happen and my perception isn't even a factor I just really really bothered by you right now saying you couldn't be happy with another man because you're the problem look at our conflict with your perception if you were with a man who was as perfect as see a McDonald you'd still have a problem because of your problem spirit and your problem conflict because that is disturbing to them and it makes me really question your ability to recognize the the overt sins that you are committing I didn't say that but then you would recognize that what you have is a valuable tool of a woman and you were to recognize that a fantastic wouldn't be doing this I would not be doing this if I didn't you would not not hesitate to affirm that I could have happiness in relationship with a Godly Man there would be no hesitation to answer that question that a hundred percent positive if you would be happy with somebody else if he was somebody who treated you as well as you deserve to be treated and there's not many men on the face of this planet who are capable of treating you the way you deserve it says you deserve something that's so high and unattainable but if you could find if you could find him and if he existed I know you'd be happy because you have so much to give and you have so much grace and you're so forgiving and you're so gentle and you're so long-suffering and you're so patient and you're so kind that you're so giving like I see you when I see all your actual attributes and I know that they contribute to a functional healthy marriage and they know that the sickness has been on my end like that would give me hope I think I have done a lot that is damaged if it doesn't work between that I can't hear you. I believe you're cutting out I said that I believed that I've got a lot that's damaged both of us and that if it doesn't work out I hope that you do find happiness with somebody else and that I haven't done damage to you that way but what what the part of that that gives me zero hope for you is that an assignment hi she's actually trying to take a book you trying to take it away from seeing him every time he runs up the same to grab the book wage seems stick his foot out with even know even the same is not kicking it has the result of the kick because Simon's reading so fast into him home uh but it keeps doing it yep yeah so what what's problematic right now is that you have such a wild imagination that you've damaged me that there's something wrong with me that I'm now contributing to this function or that I would carry that dysfunction into a relationship and that's not healthy for you that's not healthy for you to not recognize that all the dysfunction is that on your end it continues to be on your end not healthy for you to think that this conflict between us is somehow caused by being distributed to the argument that's none of that's healthy for you or helpful to you and making the reform to make I'm sorry I'm just lay out the truth I understand it and take back to know you're not taking feedback do not taking feedback he's completely isolated just completely like you just said you just said that three out of four seventy-five percent you've spoken to since you got out of Honey Lake there's no way to represent that's not true that's not right here from no intentions they're praying that you come to them now they're crying for you they are strongly Desiring as you to make that sense but you can't make any claim that you have something to dial to be accountable to other people so that we don't have to have this conflict somewhere between us that you can't represent me that after accountable to them and issues of right and wrong they can't you know Easter and see if it's possible see I went to the trouble of cooking at home with him not true you did not went into our counseling session and he made the same tired arguments to Matt that you would just made to see it just told what happens no choice left to find behaviors minimizing its effect on your life and your children and you were trying to blame me for your behavior you did not take what they told you to heart because it just had you would have entered the conversation with Matt blowers saying the same thing you think today end of the conversation wage thing I did some stuff on Easter if that was really really damaging and I don't even feel like I've properly apologized yet but see a helped me to see that I was being selfish and that I was letting fear of having a conflict with my wife tried my behaviors and that would justify the pudding hiding papers over my relationship with my wife that that those are the only words you would have said too mad about it you wouldn't have said that six times we had an agreement we had an agreement with it and I tried to plan my day around it and it messed up my day none of those things would have been said if you were actually taking the council the CIA and that in addition to you have it repaired your relationships with the other 75% tells me that you're saying that they have a repair their relationship with me either they're not interested in communicating with me that's not an actual said we heard you're suicidal how you doing now with no no no it doesn't obligate them to put themselves In Harm's Way I'm not saying that obligates them I'm just saying that they have not done it I'm not home you know and I think it doesn't begin with them offering you an unconditional expression of concern and sympathy no matter what you're doing behind them repairing relationship depends if there's no condition involved I'm just saying that you have to have done to them you have to return them into them hey how have I harmed them
speaker 1: you should earn
speaker 2: out that should be a priority not not talking on the phone to get me to make accusations for you to defend yourself against okay well I will reach out to them I am interested they have the same one that we understand that you're not actually using his advice in a constructive way right now he tells you you're wrong on Easter and then you turn around and harm me with it later like you knew you knew that you already knew that what you have done was disruptive to our relationship and you need that minimizing denying and blaming was not going to appear the damage that you did on Easter but you did it anyway which cause further harm call for any of them to think they giving you a size is not a good idea I completely get having to get there okay I mean advice is what saying I'm talking about getting cancer concerned with anything about me helping not month that you're not a salesperson to talk to there's nothing unsafe about talking to me in relation with you right now that's office requires the person in relation with you to be pointing out finding your life because that's what a relationship is F-35 is right now
speaker 1: it can't
speaker 2: be with you in just pretend that what you're doing is not wrong cuz you have to be a safe person you could be in relation with that you have to be a person that face to come to as I see 10 of you need to look at this selfishness I need to re-evaluate your work schedule I see Finding you need to be not saying that your wife home or your wife is putting her warmth about the children's movies you you need to not be arguing about a schedule with your children he moved off like people have to be able to say that to you and know that they things aren't going to be used against them that you're not going to go to people they never even met don't have the advantage of knowing their history and no longer education among their character and call those people that them inappropriately will will be the authority and destructive ways without any concern for anybody's well-being last what you're going to do with before sending you when a person to come to you and say you know that's long as they say as he's sending you they can back it up with the whole things that have happened and actual scripture that shows that something right or wrong I don't I'm not going to make a generalization like they don't back it up with anything I've actually died they don't back it up with anything to show it scripturally right or wrong they don't back it up with anything okay you're just turning that you're going to walk around because you're going to represent that they didn't own a specific when they did you not a safe person to be around because they were saying that they did a scripture when Jesus know he had his Bible all the time and you specific all the time and then I witnessed to him using specific and I'm an eye witness to easily body however long we only are you yeah you're witness which means that you wasn't there so if you tell Teddy was never safe Passage had not going to know that he used specific if you tell Patty didn't use the Bible said not going to know that he did use the Bible so you're going to people who don't even know him and tell me things about him. Appointing outs in better not to about his method of pointing out since there's and taking his perceptions and acquitting them with okay right side he takes a lot of his perceptions and it's with him with right versus wrong and PepsiCo okay we're talking about a pastor he takes his own time, and call you over there so I think they for a non psychological professional it would be very easy and understandable for him to be doing that and just problematic when the assaults my mental health on that basis but recognizing the cognitive barriers to an extremely irresponsible the pastor and my fear because I had never met him and said whether an eyewitness and towed wasn't in the room so yeah just something that we see very common with yes I know the type of past it but I was an eyewitness said what passes I know I mean you don't have to take his perceptions and what was that early but I know that you actually were standing against the way I am literally and I signed back in session that had to be hired out which is totally understandable that's why you have professionals involved that's fine you can go to as many professionals that you want especially if you go to that doesn't mean that Aaron Bells was using his perception is Right vs wrong on things that were not like us as well doesn't mean that but he was doing it off doesn't and I know that because I'm an eyewitness and I think your analysis not interact with with going to go and give this analysis to third parties need to do that to sales person it's better just because he was utterly uninterested in how it was doing and did not reach out to me to find out so it's interacting with third parties without them know she's literally interested in how you're doing and would do anything for your benefit but it's not beneficial for you unconditional relationship with him and all the benefits of somebody showing hearing compassion for you when that the person but you're willing to malign and misrepresent just like with me and it's not it is not it is not therapeutically beneficial for you if you can use to receive compassionate caring loving and ask for me when you log to take this that I think you do and go this represent them to other people or even except resent them to me against myself at a later date last eight person to be in communication with. Beneficial for you to have the illusion that you're entitled to unconditional communication just because I care about you and we all do I'm actually in hearing what here in Bella has to say so I'm going to pursue that it would be beneficial to them if you would condescend to our weekly therapy sessions I'm not I'm not sensing any appreciation on that. I do appreciate it I think it's giving us some hope of trying to work for you this okay I did not feel hopeful about after I've or whatever session I know I was very very discouraged by your misrepresentation I think you're just you're thinking is very distorted and and you need to understand that as a therapist not works Within your thought distortions yes but when you refer to distortions what you're really describing is the difference between one person's perception versus another and the problem that I think he probably sees is that we would refer to the difference between your perception and mind consistently as mind being distorted and yours being perfect. I don't think that is necessarily healthy we are having to pretend that your perception is valid in order to look up round up that doesn't mean it is valid it means that okay you've got somebody who thinking is just not going to ever make sense to the rest of the world I don't work within his delusion to turn out completely screwed up and that's why you appreciate it. I I don't think that any of the psychological professionals I've interacted with things that my God you know view instead of reality is as far as distorted as what you think it is they don't have but I tested that none of them take a drug test well we actually take a drug test so I mean I mean I need to compare what you're saying to what actually occurred so you're when you type it out the psychological professionals yeah and I mean that's the benefit of dealing with a professional because although you can't do what you're describing they they seem to have some futuristics involved and dealing with personalities to be able to detect some of that and they seem to represent that they have a fair High degree of confidence in their ability to do that I have no choice I have tried the discussion is over there like independent ability to to deal with that but they seem to be very confident that cause I don't have that type of problem I was that the forensic their ability to just pick up on an intuitive it was pretty poor the forensics are you hired by doctor koplik research report shows that I've got a job so there's no actual conclusion drying on that report yeah there is regardless of whether diagnosis is going to drop actually to try and re-read that data and maybe read the statistics and such a ways to specifically figure out if I have a propensity toward distortions or life and and if he can elaborate and or illuminate some more on that specifically which I think he probably owes me something gave me such a abbreviated report I'd be curious about that took that to on the test yes but not whether you're a person has lied in real life but I mean one would need to the other naturally that's how they view it I'm assuming but that I don't know what I'm trying to figure out but not even have anything to do with lying cuz I don't think that that was a characteristic of it that I could tell them that's what I'm saying none of the fermented equipment to pick up on the behavior of mine behave that's a behavior perfectly perfectly saying reasonable wage nothing wrong with them people to the behavior of lying so that's not something that's in question psychologically the question of rely on a professional for those types of questions because I think that between the two of us going back and forth is not working okay but recognize that just the professionals are not concerned with the truth as much as they're concerned about the Olympics you know they want you to be able to function that's even what your your therapist at the doctor's office psychologist the entire point of his practice Thursday and figure out that you're talking about yeah he's not talking about it that's who he's going to speak with he's not he's not a therapist for you found with helping you function in this world well yeah whether I better I snapped the papers from you is not as concerned them you you perceive that I snatched the paper so that's what they have to work with them and I put it into you know when they weren't even there that your wife didn't match the papers I'm all I did I'm just saying they're not concerned with what happened they know that they have to work within the framework what you believe happened that's why you find it so appealing and so helpful because you've got people who are willing to believe you and willing to help you out within the framework of what you proceed happening cuz that's the same potato Nathan spent all of my time trying to convince them to believe you but take your view to help me see it your way I'm not trying I've got no interest in going back to our old life but honestly okay so I don't know which of the criteria and proceed you think doesn't apply to you what about it which one of the Criterion r o t t e I'd have to go back and look at us again in a while you remember thinking that they don't apply I remember thinking some of them seems like they could and some of them I wasn't too sure about hum but then we look at like the wrong data anyway no seem like you ended up deciding that what we looked at was an accurate I thought I specifically said look at the cuz it's even more like even DSM or so you looked at the f m 5 day from my telling me too spell you're probably right I don't remember okay are you telling me you know for sure if I reach out to Aaron he wants to talk to me cuz we're not getting that impression based on their behavior thoughts lately but I think that that the purpose is not reaching out goal is to figure out what you need your account of in relation to him and to make it clear that that you don't have any intention of using your relationship with him to try to get to me you don't have any intention or trying to you know give you advice to me but your intention is to be to figure out how you spend against him because you actually care because you have the Holy Spirit In You okay you see the different to him and say well my wife says that the part of my package came for Menifee so you have to be part of my team from any so I don't think anybody has to do anything ever no I'm just saying I'm just pulling off you think that you're not engaging with me enough it's because he doesn't want to engage with you within that framework within a framework of you trying to use him to get your wife back with them out and willing to attempt always that you send against him the approach is the Humboldt fear of actually being like you were so sure that you didn't sin against me Easter you were so positive and I told you and you were still super positive and I told you so positive and perfected a you're still so positive or you didn't get anything so those people feel like you send against them it makes sense to approach them with an open heart and a humble Spirit willing to actually bring about let it affect you Behavior had on them right yeah okay bye and I love you sorry and I know that you're not but I care about you and I miss you I hope you have a good day bye