speaker 1: 
speaker 2: this call may be recorded hello hey Dustin listen through our phone call recordings from the past week have you know sorry are you don't have to give you ever go back through the ones where you told me that you haven't been the restroom then you changed it to you have but not taste these any changes they do pasties but not when I said it was awful I really don't know what to say to you I didn't do that I was asking if you listen to the phone calls phone calls where I said that I went to some places I've been pasties and then changed it to the season actually just had just changed it I never said that you said that you went to a place other than tasty wage but you know I said that you initially said that you have to send any restaurants
speaker 1: and
speaker 2: then you said that you had the map pasties and then you said yes pasties but not the time I was saying it was but my point is that is what I'm saying right now at exact quote if she said because obviously it's not I'm not even speaking in first person my question was whether you did what you told me you would do what she told me that you would go back and listen to those recordings I haven't I think I did that earlier on but I well know because I asked you to further down in it and you said that you had yet but you said that you would so if if you didn't do it in the last couple of days then you didn't do it okay I have listened to some phone calls I don't recall which one's not specifically the one you know I'm referring to I don't know which one you're referring to the first month yeah we're in for you were like what date it was like I don't know that it says and I read you the date that it registered and then you said going I could have gone on that that you're accusing me I'm going her I couldn't have possibly gone cuz I was at work you know there's only one phone call where I first brought that up to you I'm just saying it sounds like you haven't listened to it which is fine it just needs to be this difficult to say no I didn't listen to that one I don't know but that would be happening this is so difficult cuz I've listened the phone calls and I don't recall if I've listened to that one but I'd be happy to listen to it again and again you accurate info okay it sounds like you didn't listen to it then I'm sorry it sounds like you didn't listen to him from this past week either but anyways in listening to our calls I can tell that this is not therapeutically helpful and it is not giving you any practice of what a functional relationship looks like and it's very bad very bad for me and it's very very very bad for our children and it seems to me like it's very bad for you I don't notice that you've taken any steps since you got back from honey late like to actually repent of not listening to the advice of our elders said that you can actually have people around you who is going to be accountable to it seems like you somehow like leveraged what you're saying psychologist that how do you make said in order to come back into my life with out having anybody to protect me and speak up for me and it's not a dynamic it's actually safe for me so I felt like that was sort of one of the contingencies that I was expressing to you as you were discharging but I needed you to place yourself in accountability to other people who are in our real life not just one hour a week but real life people and and that's not happening because because you're not repentant and so I just don't see it working but if you're about to like start working on stuff on your own and you think that that you're at some point in the near future they're going to be ready to make those kinds of difficult admissions you know then we could work something out where like instead of talking to each other directly we have a third party that we go through for like the you know clerical stuff off our day-to-day stuff or planning kind of stuff so that we're not interfacing like this on the phone or even worse because I don't think that's how the either or I was going over our last phone call and there were probably three times that it really sounded like what you were wanting have happened as you were one of data like present you with divorce settlement offer that you could sign so that we could just be done with all the conflict and have it over with and move on with our lives kind of but it was in some of the contacts that sounded like I was definitely what you wanted and another context that sounded more like that was kind of a rhetorical device that you were doing to accuse me of not having done it or something so I wasn't completely clear on if you want that you are not that's what you want I said do you work that's what you want I hear you blame-shifting I understand that you're not willing to answer yeah you are I'm I'm trying to ask you if you want us to go ahead and do a settlement so that you can work on yourself without having all this conflict and drama and junk going on that you said is making it really stressful and difficult for you it sounded entire life to be married to you I have never not wanted to be married to you I've never intended to not be married to you okay you know you did divert from my actual direct question which is where in the circumstance we're in right now there were several times where you made it sound like you wanted you to bring a settlement to you to fill up that is the divorce mean that's about all of our assets and take all of our data. I never asked you to place you understand I don't want to give up having power and control over a woman who's willing to be sure everything servant for the rest of your life I get that I don't need that explained to me
speaker 1: I
speaker 2: don't know what you're talking about hey yeah I do it's not Noble if you to work the same area to me that's what that's not that's not impressive that doesn't make you some special super husband hero here that's that's non impressive it's predatory and disgusting you don't get points for it and abuser
speaker 1: but
speaker 2: this is a difficult situation for the people because you're not having the type of power over me that you're used to having over me and need to have over me and that's why this is not working because I'm not no answer my question and I'm not seeing any question the reason you're not accepting my answer is like you want to be done with it it's it's inside your questions no you have it if you say something so the work was the it's not Noble of you to want to stay married to me well don't ask me if you don't want to seem to be married to me but that's not specific to the situation that we're in right now this second so when I talk about situation we're in right now this step if you can answer yes can you answer no other way I am activating you a very colorful emotionally accurate calibrated response of my feelings towards relationship and I am not going to happen is that we can have that conversation that I can do that. That's what I'm giving me all of your feelings I'll ask you to question actually call to ask you and you can tell me the answer though okay so let's have a sign off now doesn't tell me your feelings about our relationship I'm sorry done that no I want you to tell me cuz I wasn't listening I was listening for a yes or no and I didn't hear it so now I'm asking to completely unrelated question this is Dustin tell me your feelings about our relationship off I'm not going to do that this is a recording I really wanted to tell me your feelings about I already did already articulated back to me Life in a way that it's not being characterized but I don't want to provide self up to that sort of all Mobility again just to have my character is characterized in the way that it was it's not something that's healthy for me or good for either one of them so now you don't feel like you need to tell me your feelings about our relationship yep definitely do that anymore because because it's clearly not something you actually want to sell it because that would take too much reality you don't want to do it but this time I asked the question tell you to do that because I've got a recording of that answer your question again it was about a relationship you never did in the first place and you know it I'm asking you not going to answer your question a second timer not going for the first time since I can go back and listen to the recording and still not have a yes or no I did see that that were in fact in the fact that the possibility but the fact that I can't go run skating with you I'm going to have to stop being in contact with you. Including pickups and drop-offs including talking about credit card payments including everything one hundred percent I'm not going to be able to communicate with you at all no more texts no more phone calls no more space to face that's where we are in this circumstance and distract it puts on you do you want to just have a settlement money that you can just sign and just be done with it all so that you can focus on working on yourself and how you need to change for you to be okay and for you to be able to organize your time and for you to be a good father is that what you want answer that earlier I don't I don't know what you said because it wasn't the acid it wasn't no is that what you want I already answered you earlier I can replay the recording 709 but it still won't know if you said yes or no I didn't say yes or no what was he asking the question like it's not a question of what your general posture towards me your how do you feel about marriage or what do you want in life it's in the circumstance where in do you want to finance correct answer answer you mean instead of saying yes or no you told me your feelings and your desires I don't understand why won't you answer me one second you didn't you didn't I've always wanted to be married to you may want you to be happy if I were to be happy I was calling it would say that you want me to be here but I didn't call to ask you if you want me to be happy I called ask you if you want to sign a divorce settlement
speaker 1: I
speaker 2: want what I've always wanted I want us to go up together and see to be happy like but do you want right now but right now do you want to just sign a divorce settlement money that's not true that's not true that's the
speaker 1: I
speaker 2: don't know what else to tell you about that it was after you could say no stop interrupting me giving you as much my answer to that question as I can and give you as much as my heart phone number that I can reach you and they I can't be on the phone with you anymore. I want to support you in the best way that I possibly can as the most devoted husband that I possibly can and I have completely way down everything that I can to get you what you want if you want I will sign off sorry I didn't I actually didn't hear you very well just then would you say what happened what happened the kids needed something I think you were just trying to say something like that so it was hello are you there hello hello are you okay no they said that I've been doing everything that I can to lay down my desires and wants so that I can better serve you and the vehicle that you want to have best way for me to do that is to disappear then I will find your divorce thing I'm asking is that what you were given the circumstance I know but getting a circumstance I'm going to call you out on it every time you blamed you even though I'm going to call you out on it every time you do it I'm going to call you out with a black mailing me like given that we're about to go back completely because I can't trust you because of the way that you do not understand given the situation do you want to find the divorce agreement Craigslist and say that you didn't Dustin well then answer it I I don't I don't know month which breaks my heart that you're still there that you would still want to behave in that way and operated that matter what I'm asking you yes or no question that as an opportunity to speculate me off but you know when say yes or no question yeah it's it's a question. Do you know what the most agree that now it's a real question and it and it is a yes or no question okay ever ever ever ever asked you for a divorce I mean I was going through her last phone call and it kind of seemed like that's what you were saying there were several times you said then like right at the settlement bring it to me that sign it even though I haven't brought it up at all what you want say yes or no question do you want juice I have never ever ever wanted anything but then for us so talk about every point in history and every point in the future or anything but I just don't like the smell of it I'm not talking about have you ever ever ever ever right now lend out today what is that what you want I don't understand what you think you're accomplishing by being so obtuse is this horrific would you do this with your subcontractors if they ask you yes or no question do you do this to them would you refuse to say the word yes or say the word bill and goes on a grandiose monologue about nothing working with their company and then when you finish monologue then okay but seriously do you want us to do these I already answered make sure it's not just tell them yes to tell them no no can I try to simplify it may may be adding another layer are you willing to answer that question with a yes or no today cuz you have no no no no no you haven't you haven't said yes you have it said no and I feel very sick now over and over and over and over the question are you the same question over and over please do not be willing and you have a good one and the question is I'm willing to say the word are you willing to say the word yes or no why are you not accepting my answer I can't understand you one of your loss all explanations indicates the yes to the and the other issue to call it to me like it's supposed to be crystal clear and if not I was recording over and over and over when I should be taking care of your children trying to figure out if that's what you're telling me you need to do is, I can listen to this phone conversation over and over and over and over and if you're saying yes or no because we leave your number and higher wage for the whole entire life we're going to change it to a different question things was all about how if that's what I want Flyknit the other day I know all these facts and I still don't have any questions so it just I don't know if it's you didn't you didn't suck you're the only one who holds what you mean by that
speaker 1: I
speaker 2: don't know how to be more clear about my desire will tell you that they are right and and 11 sound like this so that's how you could be more clear that's more clear than telling you that I haven't ever and never tab towards the divorce because of what I said to possibly mean that I do want to divorce the divorce means that I do want to divorce I'm not talking about the specific situation that we're in right now the second you're speaking generically hey Justin guess what news flash woman exists from time continuum of our life doesn't prove anything I said I'd love to divorce you out of my hand off I want to be married to somebody that's out of their names well I don't understand the situation is what it is you can't change the situation so you can say I've never wanted anything but to be married to you and I just never wanted anything that could be learned to do but that's a different question that your answer is it okay why are we doing this I mean are you do you think she wants me to say no go ahead I'm going to try to prove that she's stupid by trying to get off that bitch to never asked me for a yes or no again haha it'll probably get the kind of emotional to advance that I used org of the word know haha oh I can really spend forty-five minute phone call it said, are you getting out of this I don't understand you want to make ridiculous claims like I'm doing whatever I can to make you happy and you know it can happen to make that choice is not believable that do anything to make me happy it's not believable that's what I want on there and I want you to be happy so you can answer my question with a yes or no is that what makes you happy I called you today that I realized that the situation is not good for you and it's been good for me so we need to stop communicating so knowing that we've got a period of no contact coming up do you want to find a divorce settlement yes or no I don't know how to answer that are in if you want it then I will sign it I do not want to be divorced and I do not want to not be in contact and I don't I don't want any of this month okay can you just answer my question though do you want to send someone and I can't I already told her that took the sunroof yes but you did you say the word I'm going to take that as a finalist with that question because you answered it it's yeah you said no that's fine it's just making sure because I was worried after that last phone conversation after I went back and listened to it I was worried that you were really wanting. and it was you know for sure one way or another if that was what you're wanting now and and specifically because you seem to have like all the different details of the various parts of the setting like all worked out in your mind way past what I've you know considered so seems like you were like you were going like you get the housing and take the debt you get the kid like you were going down the list like naming all the factors like you don't I had a certain way in your mind but you want to get to go that is how I want to go if you're leaving me yeah I just I did it sounded like you had it all figured out so I was just making sure that I do have it figured out if that's what we're doing that's what we're doing is that what you want no okay that's all I called to ask I'm not going to be okay yep that's going down with Walter again did you call the hotline yesterday y not doing very well what yes do you mean because you have depression do you want to tell me about it I can't tell you anything that's in the rain without you beating me yeah you've been upset about some of the things I've said about you this week like me what is it safe for me to talk to you I just heard see if you I love you and I only ever want to be with you and I think that you're amazing and I enjoy your company please stop this isn't working this is not even true I'm trying to do I'll I am I'm serious keep telling myself that it's not true what is really going on what don't let make somebody definitely talk to me or text me I definitely do I definitely do I definitely don't like the things that you're doing you don't like any specific view you don't know I can't say anything to you that you don't it's utilizes abuse that's not internalisation tested I'm able to recognize the key you have done a lot of really bad sins against your family and they've been going on for a long time and when they're confronted with those you don't like grieve having done them and repent of them and work on your relationship with Christ and your relationship with your Christian Brothers to be in a healthier place down to not let your heart go down that road in the future that's that's not me internalizing anything that's just the situation as you know it and as I know it that's not how I know it. Yeah it is it is you know you know I can you know yes you know you know you know you know what you've done and I have received no you haven't you haven't this is what they haven't you haven't Dustin if you had repented then you would recognize that with everybody at our church was telling you all along was right. You were just being rebellious and you would recognize that if you would just listen to their counsel in the first place you wouldn't have put our family through all this grief and all this expense and you would go off you go back to this and you would go back to those people and you would apologize to them and you would ask to walk you through how to make it right and you ask them how you can set up yourself up for accountability in the future I've already done that no you haven't yes I have I haven't yes I have no you haven't he'd sometimes do here I think that you I think that you are trying to convince me that you've repented with out actually apologizing and labeling your behavior is what it was but while minimizing minimizing and denying and blame-shifting Thursday I don't know how I can do that stuff off that I can ever do it enough let me again were you worried that if you talk to the hotline it would make you feel more depressed sorry to give you a calibrated so was just you told me you would do that and then you didn't do it it's just confusing to me and it really it really really hurts me off when you use this tagline of of doing literally everything you asked me to do when that's not been my experience at all at all at all like not at all at all has it been my experience that you're doing things that I asked you to do it seems like you just came up with this idea that you were going to do everything I asked you is you so that you could blame me for the high interest rates were paying instead of having to own that yourself that's that's the only area in which I've seen them doing what I asked you to do this is a oh I could do it so much better but I'm letting you do it if I asked you to call the hotline you don't call the hotline if I asked you to get your retainer back you don't get your retainer mad Bible win yesterday advertising they have a hotline for that too sounds like you do have you talked to Aaron about this have you talked to Erin Bell about this no on the verge of having to leave our church so that I can have some sanity I thought you said that you went and apologized asked how you could have accountability you didn't go to Aaron with that so if you had that would be someone who need to call they'll be someone who you could call and say my wife's asking me to call the domestic violence hotline but I can't even do that because I don't even want to live right now, so that's what accountability is Dustin it's having somebody who's there for you even though there for me he I mean he is he is that's someone who loves you know it's that's someone who loves you unconditionally you seen where you are and you seen what you've been through and he's pointed you to Jesus at every turn and all of his like practical advice would have saved you from heartache that's that's absolutely somebody you can trust absolutely Hood someone who has your best interests at heart so he doesn't yeah he definitely does Lily doesn't he doesn't even begin to this isn't going to help that doesn't get anything I'm not well that's it I mean I mean to be honest when you're when you're in absolute rebellion and absolutely committed to continuing in your state you were you were you absolutely work like you can't say that that looks like the Holy Spirit at work okay thank to find you I mean it it doesn't I would I would I would think that if he was watching that behavior saying that that's consistent with the marks of the song True Believer then you would have to question his judgment right we're talking about absolute open Rebellion to the word of God in the call of Christ
speaker 1: I
speaker 2: mean I think this is where there's a problem you know but like you've not actually gone and apologized to him because in your own heart you have an admitted that he was right about every single thing which doesn't it doesn't seem like you used actually repented it doesn't seem like you're actually owning all of the time I mean yeah it was he was he didn't even do like and try to guess what was motivated you like like just your actual actions it was better off following his advice earlier on up to including today can you name one time giving you the wrong advice I don't know you can't you can't answer you can't I understand like you agree with the understanding that puts us at odds with one another year life to help you see truth well it's hard for you to see it yourself this is somebody who loves you unconditionally no matter what things that you've done wrong it is cuz you can't even name one time that he's giving you bad advice you're mad because you feel like he's part of the reason that you felt I don't know there'll be negative consequences on you I guess for the actions that you've taken that's not that's not a reason to not trust somebody it's that somebody you want to lean into at a time like this it's not a good idea to be seeking out people who are going to help you continue instead without consequences it's what I'm saying it's there's nothing that he's done that's been wrong there's nothing he's said that's been long there's no advice he's given you that hasn't been sound like off I don't agree with those statements think that he gave me the nicer the phone with it but you can't give it account or you can't give an encounter exact this I just not interested a lot more interested in that existing all trying to argue about for the third party I'm not trying to argue about a third party. I'm trying to point you Jesus that's Jesus is your answer Jesus has always been your answer for everything I'm not talking about Aaron Jesus bless you beyond measure. Lucky lucky lucky lucky man God's provision for you is all over this not most people Christian or otherwise not most people receive this kind of Grace from the people around them not most people have a wife who sticks with them mystery the things that I've stuck with you through not most people have a church family who are going to continue to love someone and some their nose at them through as much as you come to you know that knows that people drew not most people get this tag and a nice house on the bars without having to pay rent or utilities God Is providing a wage for you and it's right in front of you you can do this your children can benefit from having an emotionally healthy father some day and keep do have a lot of people who love you a lot available to help you along the way but you came back from Honey Lake Clinic thinking that your number one takeaway was that you need to isolate yourself from your support network so everybody there said I don't think that was really works out that well in practice I think they were right I think that they were I think they might have been a little sick of this communication between you and them when they thought that your church was angry at you and was trying to be mean to you and destroy your family and all that stuff that you were feeling when you went to Honey Lake but if you love truth and you want to lean into the truth and you want to know the truth the truth is the truth is you're talking about people who love you and would not harm you no they're not they're not may be harming You by letting you continue in your sin yeah but they would never do that they would never hurt you he does yeah would you really do anything for me yes please would you would you be willing to do anything for me no can you write down exactly exactly what Aaron said that you thought was wrong obviously I didn't record those conversations that I can tell you send them no write them down I can write them down yes would you be open to learning about how and why your behaviors can be categorized as abuse
speaker 1: say
speaker 2: that again would you be open to learning about how your behavior is abusive and of course from whom places in service
speaker 1: let me
speaker 2: see like even if that's true that I've never going to be able to do it cuz this I already I could tell that it was abusive going to be doing it now there's a that I mean now it's kind of why I wanted you to call the hotline cuz they would have told you to go through Intervention Program but there's a specific Intervention Program that I would like for you to go through because it's Christian and it's online okay would you like me to send you information about it yes please it specifically says in there that if you are if you say you're willing to go through the program but you wouldn't be willing to set up a shepherding team of I guess men around you who are going to basically be there to tell you what behaviors are okay what behaviors aren't okay and have your wife select a member of the shepherding team as her advocate then you're not ready for the program and it probably wouldn't do you any good okay and it feels like you kind of fall into that category like oh yeah I'll pay the big money to go to the class so yeah I'll go talk to the professionals but no people here in my own life I'm not going to I'm going to do that I don't know why you say that it just seems like that's been your posture for a while now like even that border like he's a completely licensed professional but you don't even want to talk to him like like you want to control this micro environment where there where we only speak to a person who's completely isolated from know your whole situation queen of them being a third party is that they can whole situation know people who know the whole situation of the people who are like eating pizza with you like real life people people you can talk to and 3:00 in the morning what I don't have that you don't have what people I talked to 3:00 in the morning people you could call the people who love you that much that they would be there for you at 3 in the morning but you're expressing that you don't you don't want people in your real life to be involved in counseling you suck what let me send that that people in that really can't counsel me well it's been a pretty consistent theme the clearing your independence from the elders and saying that Aaron's trying to harm you and yeah I'm just trying to hire me a website that has harmed you like those are those are things that very much isolate you folks who harmed you today I said who harmed you today
speaker 1: huh
speaker 2: do you today Mirabelle I was talking about it you know how does he harm you today bite characterizing behaviors of Christians in terms that indicate they're either Christians in that Christians Oh you mean you didn't like a sermon about liking it or not liking it right so let's see with it y consider him you're saying being liking or disliking a sermon it's harmful to you because you think that there should be like a middle-aged middle category like you don't think that he should make it all everybody's either a Christian or not a Christian and you can see it based on their fruit like you think there should be a category of people who are Christian but don't act like it no I don't know I guess I don't feel like that's the ology is that far off from anything that I've heard all the pastors I've been under since I was 3 years old I don't say that it was bad theology single week with the knowledge that he considers me to mean not a Christian and regards me that way it's so yep service rep you can tell you the answer sorry about that yes just upset because in the past he said that you're not you're not a Christian and so now everything you said is kind of as it's not well now everything he says is harmful to you because you're hearing it through the filter of something that you guys haven't really worked out from your past conversations it's not working it out okay buddy I understand why that's something you can work out there's not any lack of clarity about anything or something to discuss what do you mean do you have a now repentant of the things that you were I thought that you have now repented of the things that you were non repented of when he said made those characterizations let me think that covers it all up right I don't know what do you mean I mean you would be completely in agreement that you were sitting to his face in front of him when he was asking me to stop and you have the same theology that he has that that's not a mark Reaver so if you've now repented of the things that you were choosing to sit in consistently in front of him being paid off I don't even not efficient I just know what do you think that wage why would I don't understand why he would think is there any reason who think that hello that's just what I think that you think I feel a little vulnerable disposing that view because I know you going to go back and tell him so I just I wouldn't you just tell him I don't understand I mean why would you not want him to know that you're assuming that he has a theology that you've never asked him about I just want to be done okay I'm just I just I'm not understanding like why you're saying about not wanting to be vulnerable with someone like Aaron who loves you said I don't get it and I don't get making up theologies and describing them to him as an excuse to isolate yourself from him wage believe that I am and you're saying that he believes that suicidal people aren't Christians that is that's a pretty off-the-wall thing to ascribe to a person who's never said it I'm not wanting to argue either Dustin I want you to I want you to be well and be happy and at this point the steps are so easy and so I'm clear it's just isolation that you're choosing that's going to make it where you can't learn the healthy Behavior patterns and communication patterns that you need to reconcile with your wife and understands what I don't understand I'm saying right now you're still kind of been Rebellion you say things like I'm doing everything you asked me to do but I don't think everyone would tell you that it's a good idea to do everything that I asked you to I think that's a person who actually understands what needs to happen for us to have a healthy family and for you to have a healthy walk with the Lord I think you would say you need to stop just saying I'll do whatever my wife does you need to make decisions yourself that are going to be beneficial to your family and you need to seek the Lord first and I'm willing to help you do that that's the person that you're running away from and you're having to make up lies about him in order to excuse running away from him you're having to make up he would think I'm not a Christian if he knew long as the Suicidal Thoughts you making that up as an excuse to isolate yourself from him and instead you're willing to be around someone like see a who's going to say to just do whatever your wife's just do whatever your wife says which is only going to bring you heartache because that's I mean who can carry that kind of Burden that's that's crushing nobody can do it like under their own power but but but sitting with someone like said hey who's going to allow you to get away with saying I'll just do whatever my wife says that makes it real easy for you to stay back in those old unhealthy patterns of blame-shifting which is what we've seen come out of the c a model I'll let my wife decide I'll let my wife decide and then her at every corner you can say just because I let you live where are you bye cuz I want to make sure you're safe is that mean that means I care about you and I want to make sure that you're safe you matter to me very much or well-being matters to me very much where are you I feel scared that this is the place here do you want me to send the police to you where are you are you going to I don't know where you are Dustin you cannot do that what you cannot do that if you're in a reasonably safe place then I won't do that is that fair correct at the same time with us at his house McDonald's has a reasonably safe place you want somebody to come be with you no do you have the number for the hotline suicide prevention no but Google foresees it to you what okay and do you have the list of other people to call do you do you have people you can call if you're sad hello Dustin but does that mean up but I said do you have people you can call I don't know no you don't have a list of people you can call
speaker 1: no
speaker 2: okay I got it I got a feed the kids quick can I call you back once I get their chicken cut and I'll help
speaker 1: you with
speaker 2: come up with a list and I wouldn't call any of the people you put on my list okay well I'm going to call you back okay all right I'll call back in a few minutes by