speaker 1: 
speaker 2: this call may be
speaker 1: a mommy
speaker 2: oh good hello I missed a call from you
speaker 1: yeah I was just trying to coordinate meeting with CIA
speaker 2: okay so 5:15
speaker 1: yep okay I'm good
speaker 2: yeah can
speaker 1: you
speaker 2: can you help me understand your deal with your file servers I'll have to look at them right but I'm saying like why do you need stuff from them that's not on your
speaker 1: computer I mean
speaker 2: so why would you be randomly storing some things you need for taxes on your computer and some things you need for taxes on the file server
speaker 1: files go on the file server and software goes on the
speaker 2: computer off
speaker 1: so
speaker 2: you don't keep any files on your computer Chargers
speaker 1: I mean I do occasionally but not typically
speaker 2: and how do you do you access your
speaker 1: files on the 5 3
speaker 2: yeah but you didn't know what the password
speaker 1: was I changed it limits the sales tried to break into it oh
speaker 2: okay so can you help me understand why you don't want me to have your file making up my files I know but can you help me understand was that a mental illness or was that a I know you know decision made of sound mind and
speaker 1: body I don't know it was offensive to me that you were trying to take basically my
speaker 2: work so do you feel like you as a person when you're offended wage aren't able to act rationally or do you feel like that was a specific acute condition you were having of a mental health
speaker 1: problem I don't know honey I think that I think that is my work in my files and we had agreement to have them where I had access to them and it was
speaker 2: so you would say that I should I should interact with you as though that is a true representation of your actual character in your decision-making skills
speaker 1: no I'm telling you now that I'll give you access
speaker 2: to right right that doesn't that doesn't change your character that changes that you're going to act differently in order to get
speaker 1: what you want I don't agree with
speaker 2: that saying I can okay I can see that I've been irrational or yes I can see that I have been unreachable I can see that that shouldn't have been offensive to me or I can see that I'm selfish or I can see that the way that I try to control people is not the right way to go about it you're saying I think everything I've done is right and good and I'm the good one and you did something you shouldn't have done and shame on you but I guess you've got me over the barrel so I'm going to have to comply with what you tell me
speaker 1: I didn't say
speaker 2: that's how that's how I'm hearing that's how I'm hearing what you're saying because you're not saying that that's right but it's one or the other. You're either standing by that you are thinking well and making good decisions or you're rejecting and repenting of everything you've done and all the ways that you've looked at your right to power and control
speaker 1: that's why I'm saying you can have
speaker 2: them no you didn't say that we're not going to pretend that you're saying that when you're actually telling you know you're actually that's not what you actually
speaker 1: said the recorded phone call I said that you can have
speaker 2: them I know we're not talking about who's in power and control and who have two over the barrel and who's comply with his demands were talking about whether the person who can you're talking about whether you're a person who can be trusted to make rational decisions when you're the one who's got the power and control right now I still have the power and
speaker 1: control because they're my files and they're password protected and then choosing
speaker 2: I know but we
speaker 1: took the respect of
speaker 2: course is finalized and you can't live in the same house as the week if our divorce is finalized then I have half of our assets for a divorce is finalized and the law tells you when you can and may I help you with your children so you're doing what you have to do in order to get back in power and control in the ways that you want to be back in power and control and so you're saying I'll give you files in order to get what I'm really pissed me can control you trying to best us we know you're trying to do best and what I'm saying is I'm listening to what you're saying to try to figure out how long you process your past behaviors do you look back and do you say there's not just for the last four months but over the span of my life I've had very warped way of looking at things and I have a very wrong way about going about enforcing what I think other people should do or should not do and I'm repenting of that and I'm learning what the right way is Jose direct with this world and I'm having to learn that by listening to other people instead of doing what I think is right because what I think is right is Warped if if you're not saying that if you're saying it was offensive to me that you would you know that sounds like you go by making them I know I know but you're you're trying to change the subject to to whether I gave your files and and we both know that this isn't about your file this is about something way darker and wait deeper and way more serious in your character that you're needing to repent of and you're avoiding a repenting of it by saying I'm just going on files in order to not have to talk about it I know changing the subject to whether you're changing the subject to whether you're going to be different changing the subject you changing the subject to whether you're going to give me your files or not and that's not even the topic the topic is how do you process your past Behavior
speaker 1: okay I guess I don't know what you mean then
speaker 2: giving me your file tells me nothing about you giving me your file it's a question of whether you can understand that what you did was really wrong what you did didn't make sense like if you still think that you're the good one who's always done everything right and always had the high moral ground and now you're having to make condescend to Thursday Erin in order to appease her and that's your idea of repentance that's not really repentance at all it's just further manipulation I
speaker 1: don't understand what you're getting at but I am choosing to give them to you
speaker 2: I'm saying the fact that you ever had a pass
speaker 1: like there's some biblical basis for you to have my life's work up a total contract that you created with
speaker 2: your lawyer I'm not saying that there is a Biblical basis for me to have your life's work
speaker 1: so it's not a matter of right or wrong I'm choosing to give it to you because it's my choice
speaker 2: know it was wrong for you to ever ever ever ever have stuff that you were trying to hide from me ever I had no idea that there was such a thing in our life that's wrong that's wrong I don't hide I don't hide things from
speaker 1: you hiding it from you
speaker 2: you're saying the password used to be something that I knew
speaker 1: I think what was it I don't know there were several I presume those are the ones tried what you said
speaker 2: you're trying to say that I understand you're saying that I'm in rational thoughts to me that we have recorded now where that I construed some non biblical basis for having a right to your life's work so you have a sense of entitlement you have a chance that I'm irrational you have a sense that I'm doing something to victimize you and you have a sense that you're having to you're having to give in yeah you're having to give in to what I want I love even though you're the one with the moral High ground and I'm the one with the shameful no ground you're choosing to give in tonight and it's
speaker 1: anything less than a year you're
speaker 2: supposed to but I'm supposed to rest face off because of your willingness to give in to me when I have you over a barrel that's supposed to make me feel safe you
speaker 1: don't have me over a barrel Aaron I have the passwords and I'm choosing to give them to you
speaker 2: I understand and we can all figure out why it's readily apparent while you would do that at this point it's nice I'm doing it with your words I know with your words you're trying to tell me that it was right of you to protect your life's work and that I construed some biblical basis with my mom. Typical basis with my lawyer and yes yes you did and we haven't
speaker 1: recorded yeah I recorded what I said I know okay and when I tell them that doesn't match what you're saying that I said no
speaker 2: matches and and and it is for you to care deeply about deeply about how that can be interpreted by me so the things that I'm saying that are my representation of what it implies I don't I know because I'm telling you something right now tell you that
speaker 1: didn't tell me that
speaker 2: what I told you you wanting to bring them that when I tell you what can easily be inferred from what you said I miss quoted you and I'm saying I'm not trying to represent those as quotes you
speaker 1: properly if that's what you're doing cuz then
speaker 2: you should care deeply you just want to refute but you should care deeply about how the things that you just said to me could be taken and what they might infer to someone who has had the full breadth of all the experiences that I've had over yep first of the lifetime with you that should be something that you want to negate it should be something that you care about very
speaker 1: deeply I do care about the things that you said
speaker 2: direct quotes we both know what the direct quotes are the things that you can say in a reasonable for me to sync about you at this point are things that you should care deeply about when you hear me say them failure thing not not not be highly motivated to refute but care deeply
speaker 1: about I don't understand what you're saying you can choose the divorce mean I'll still give you access to the files I don't know yes I know me about it so I know that's not what this is about. I'm not doing it because I don't know what you can get that honestly
speaker 2: but I'm talking about the depravity that was evidenced by your past Behavior with computers the full breadth of all of the behavior that you have behaved and all of the choices that you have made and all of the attitudes you have held toward your wife bought a relative to anything related to the computer system in choosing to give full with the full breadth of those there should be a sense of grief in a sense of Shame and a sense of guilt and a sense of wanting to repent and all I have right now is the sense that you that you are very good that you're very
speaker 1: good because I care about
speaker 2: you right so that's what I'm saying you are you over the hero who has always been amazing and perfect and had the right High ground and the moral and the ethical and good and here you are going even a pretender by sending in my wife because it's not sure if you're not repented you're not
speaker 1: testing that doesn't mean that you can pretend that I'm saying
speaker 2: I'm not
speaker 1: saying things that I'm not
speaker 2: saying when I say something that's not what you said it's still matters if I'm saying now does this is a direct quote from that matters that's the direct quote used to make direct quote I'm telling you something about the way you've actually treated me and the way you've actually lived that you actually have to confirm so that you can actually change it
speaker 1: okay but that's what I'm doing
speaker 2: in fact that you're not willing to admit it doesn't make it not true
speaker 1: I don't know what you mean that I didn't give them to you before and I am giving them to you now
speaker 2: I know but that's changing the subject is my choice call changing the subject that's still changing the subject we're not talking about whether you're willing to give your files to me we're talking about looking back whether you're able to see sin in your heart okay looking back if you can recognize that you have rejected God's law and you have rejected the things that Christ has called you to buy living completely selfishly em yourself were your own rights and not caring about other people and love if you can see that that's one thing but if you don't know what to tell you you're making stuff up about me I said I'll give you my files that's all that matters right now I said I'll
speaker 1: give you my files I never said that I never said that
speaker 2: I know but the things that I'm saying that you can say is not because I'm stupid and think you said them it's because they're things that you need to recognize in your heart
speaker 1: what do I need to recommend in my heart
speaker 2: extreme selfishness extreme
speaker 1: entitlement I was selfish with my files I did not. I'm
speaker 2: not I'm not talking about you not sharing them for the past five months I'm talking about spending money you didn't have on them in the first place I'm talking about building and as if you had some Empire that needed to be protected from them are old when in reality you needed to be spending time with your family not with computers and yeah I'm talking about like the the arrogance of wanting to seeing that your wife is illegal and unethical and immoral out to get you and like all of those feelings that you had of being so like thinking that you were a victim or violated we're so so so so so so backwards from the reality that you were victimizing me and the reality that you had done a lot of really really immoral things and a lot of really really unethical things you're breaking God's law you're ignoring the call of Christ you're actively harming your family and you get out then you make a decision to imagine how long the victim and you need the world to know it and you still feel that way like you still seem to have those feelings that are not in touch with reality
speaker 1: no I think the feeling of
speaker 2: that well when I asked you about it just a minute ago that was what you told me told me that I didn't have a Biblical basis for having your files and that I can try some made-up reason with my
speaker 1: lawyer right you I mean that's true you yeah everything like there's some moral it's not it's regardless you want it I love you I'm going to give it to
speaker 2: you I know here you are you have this month this Unfaithful this immoral unethical this manipulative while she's done all of these things and in spite of her ugliness in spite of her shame to condescend to her and you're going to give her the files because you're such a
speaker 1: hero I
speaker 2: know but but but it's just dead set up about you they were not meant to be taken as direct quotes So when I get you really super good information that you actually need to hear you need to stop rejecting it just became are not words you said not claiming you said those words I'm claiming that there's really only two possible truths here which one is that you recognize your sin and you actually feel the weight of it and are saddened and burdened by it and you repent of it and then other days are not that you imagine that your wife has done these wrong things and in spite of her wrong this you're going to have to now condescend her there's a very very different scenarios and and and nothing you said has been consistent with the with the former
speaker 1: I can't understand you
speaker 2: you do understand me you know
speaker 1: you keep saying stuff that I'm not saying you keep saying that I think things about
speaker 2: you know I understand that you're avoiding saying off the phone with you and I'm completely in agreement that you're not saying these things and that's pretty much my point is that you're not using so when I'm telling you about your perspective or what's going on in your heart that doesn't mean I make your direct quote not at all making the direct quote I'm telling you it's I know but I'm telling you that
speaker 1: you know what you're not telling me anything that's in my heart you not telling me
speaker 2: anything Express to use in my head okay then you don't have a heart I mean you want it to be that that what's in your heart is only what you've admitted to and what you haven't verbally admitted to is not in your heart and nobody can know what's in your heart unless you verbalize it and we have to Thursday we have to that one
speaker 1: in my heart is the things
speaker 2: that I expressed this part that's not true Dustin there's a whole lot there there's a whole lot there there's a whole lot there they just said anger
speaker 1: do
speaker 2: you recognize that you've done
speaker 1: wrong yes
speaker 2: what did you do wrong with your computer I kept it for me you mean you changed your password I did what do you what were you actually referring to and you said that you kept your computer from me
speaker 1: I don't know all the times I got my computer
speaker 2: do you recognize that when I went to make copies of your file server you had feelings that were wrong what yes do you recognize that as Sin yes do you recognize that you acted on that sin how many computers do you have
speaker 1: desktop computers no how
speaker 2: many like you know laptops and
speaker 1: everything screensavers you can just name okay it's too far out favors two laptops and my desktop and the Red cigarette
speaker 2: oh so you're not counting tablets
speaker 1: there's the old iPad Mini somewhere yeah
speaker 2: you got ready at the Samsung from your
speaker 1: mom I mean it's probably around somewhere
speaker 2: I don't know what we're going to do Dustin what cuz something is seriously wrong with you
speaker 1: thinking we're talking about
speaker 2: that when I first asked you you didn't say like when I said was just like an acute mental health problem or is this like an actual representation of what you think rational thought is but your explanation was not but you were in deep sin and ashamed and
speaker 1: you said the mental health problem or a rational whatever
speaker 2: well you should know if there's a third thing is either
speaker 1: then you didn't pick one of those jobs that
speaker 2: one you said you were offended that I felt entitled to your files your life's work
speaker 1: right that's not a mental health problem and it's not a rational view of
speaker 2: whatever well then then the answer is if it was completely irrational thinking based on sins that I Repent of what
speaker 1: that would make it irrational I'm saying if you would mind it's not right you didn't say it
speaker 2: was you're claiming that it's rational thought rationally. I'm entitled to my last work and that is a fence know that's irrational Dustin that's completely that is completely irrational that's reacting to emotion and that emotion is tied to actual sense of entitlement yeah it is that's highly emotional that's not that's not you thinking about like actual biblical application of God's principles or actual legal
speaker 1: application Florida
speaker 2: Statutes to do what
speaker 1: I didn't say that it was a rational view of God's principles
speaker 2: God's principles are absolute truth so if you're not if that's not what you're operating on when you decide what's rational and what's irrational
speaker 1: then I'm going to give you my lifestyle there and
speaker 2: I know but I don't know why you can't look back and go there was something wrong with my thought process I was a very very sinful very often irrational person when I was taking
speaker 1: away choosing different
speaker 2: know you said that it was rational you were saying that you were offended
speaker 1: rational and I was offended I
speaker 2: did it you're saying rational right with an
speaker 1: R yeah
speaker 2: and that doesn't make sense Dustin like that is scary for me to think that today I'm going to have to go be in a room with a person who thinks that that is rational that's your a scary person for me to have to be around
speaker 1: well that makes me sad like trying not why are you not saying choosing I mean choosing
speaker 2: not not what you're choosing your life cuz your choices can be based on practical like what makes sense in this situation or or how do I get what I want the situation so I'm talking about your your thought process like having some recognition that that's a warped thought
speaker 1: process I do that's why I'm not choosing it
speaker 2: I know but the thought I'm offended that she thinks that she has a right to my life's work probably made sense to your mother
speaker 1: right I have no idea what makes sense they're going to
speaker 2: go out on a limb and say that you probably had a conversation with her about it right and you probably could tell me whose side she would
speaker 1: be on fine
speaker 2: okay so it made sense to
speaker 1: her okay
speaker 2: I feel like that should tell you
speaker 1: something me and told me she's going to pick my side no matter what it's got very little to do with my analysis of anything
speaker 2: obviously but to think that it's a reasonable worldview to say I should be offended that my wife feels entitled to my life's work
speaker 1: understand what I'm saying I feel differently
speaker 2: about it right but right now looking back on it you should be able to look at it and go there was a problem at play there I know but not not based on what's going to give you the best outcome but based on wage understanding right versus wrong rational versus irrational acting acting on intellect vs acting on feelings acting on God's word versus acting on the world's list like you're you're saying it isn't it if it as if it made sense at
speaker 1: the time I'm not seeing that didn't see it me the time
speaker 2: so you saying
speaker 1: I'm saying that it was wrong and I'm sorry and I was using differently
speaker 2: do you think I did something
speaker 1: wrong no
speaker 2: do you think I did something I shouldn't have
speaker 1: done not relative that
speaker 2: did something that wasn't in your best interest
speaker 1: not relative to that
speaker 2: well at all
speaker 1: I don't think that we should have pursued a divorce but I don't think we're going to agree about that wage I think it is
speaker 2: imperative I think it is highly imperative I think it is possibly non-negotiable that you figure that one
speaker 1: out so I already studied
speaker 2: it no you didn't you probably went in your Bible app and typed the word divorce that's my guess no did you read the whole
speaker 1: Bible did you read any
speaker 2: extra biblical books written about it
speaker 1: no I mean not
speaker 2: books okay so you cherry-picked which articles on the Internet or the most reasonable wage what what do you mean when you say you
speaker 1: studied like the Bible and I read commentary and opinion
speaker 2: about it where did you get the commentary and
speaker 1: opinion I don't remember you it
speaker 2: sounds like you might have gotten it on the internet since you didn't have a book well and it sounds like you might have had the type divorce into your Bible app since you didn't read the whole box got it from our elders got what a commentary
speaker 1: their opinion about the valid reasons for
speaker 2: divorce is that what you mean by study
speaker 1: I did that I did other things like
speaker 2: I think that me filing for divorce doesn't just need to be something that you except I think it needs to be something that you consider the best thing that ever happened to you appreciate that God gave you a wife who was so willing to stay within his will and act in your best interest that she would sacrifice her very own reputation
speaker 1: would you like to enlighten me on your basis for The Voice yeah and thanks
speaker 2: may I ask you this what do you think would be my reasons for divorce
speaker 1: hang on the previous idea
speaker 2: that means that you don't feel guilty about anything you'll feel shame about anything you don't have any sense that you've done something to damage your children you don't have any sense that you've done something that damage
speaker 1: and I didn't say anything remotely like that
speaker 2: it obvious I yeah you haven't the foggiest idea why somebody would want a divorce you so that means you have zero sense
speaker 1: and whatever my reasons for divorce I don't know yeah what are some you can't think of anything that you've ever done that would make your wife and
speaker 2: children be better off with you not doing those things or at least not able to do those things to them
speaker 1: anymore there's not ask me that
speaker 2: question yeah I'm asking you that I am
speaker 1: you are now yeah I was there for you I was not emotionally connected to you did not very well
speaker 2: okay so often those first two were actually not valid because for you to not be here from me is not something that I would have by divorcing you right you can see that as being clearly clearly not
speaker 1: valid it
speaker 2: doesn't it doesn't damage cuz I'm asking you when actions have damaged your family that they can only escape from that continued damage by divorce so if it was that I needed you to be here for me I don't escape that by divorcing you so that's not obviously not a reason and then the second one being emotionally connected to me now divorcing you would not save me from being emotionally disconnected from you so that's clearly not a valid reason
speaker 1: either wage
speaker 2: but the third one you said was that you were not very good to me well that's the one you should zero in on that's the one that's worth spending some time thinking about because that's the active abuse and that's something that I could escape and the kids could Escape by having some legal protections that are only afforded to people who are not married
speaker 1: can you see that provided for in scripture where what
speaker 2: no you're you're you're you're twenty thousand yards down the road from me Dustin trying to talk
speaker 1: about that what
speaker 2: you're you're you're skipping twenty thousand miles down the road you're wanting to jump right to like starting with a okay let's take a Biblical list of reasons that Jesus himself said that somebody could divorce 4 and on each one they do you fall into that category nope nope nope nope okay I can still abused her awesome haha
speaker 1: I love this Bible verse that
speaker 2: that's so I'm saying instead of your working backwards
speaker 1: right. Doing that
speaker 2: no I don't actually you need to appreciate that very much because you need to recognize the actual implications of the way you're living your life that's what you're actually doing the fact that you're not saying words out loud the fact that you're not saying the words out loud doesn't mean that they're off
speaker 1: limits what
speaker 2: you were not be held responsible for the fact that you want to utilize the Bible to justify abusing your wife actively nobody wanted to weasel out of that vehicle out of it because you didn't say it as long as you don't say it then nobody can hold you responsible for it she has to stop saying those things about my heart because I didn't say the Pledge just pretend that I think
speaker 1: things and say things that I don't think or say that
speaker 2: you didn't think them but that doesn't change it that doesn't
speaker 1: if I don't think they're saying it's got literally nothing to do with
speaker 2: that's not true because that's how you're living your life you're choosing to abuse your wife you choosing to try to shame her for dead horse you based on the Bible because you have every right to continue to abuse her and she has no right try to escape at that's what you're actually going to skip over with you skip over the actual actions that you're taking against your wife and you want to jump to so where does that fit into your biblical basis so I'm saying stop right you want to actually hear me yes you did I'm trying to talk to you about the sins that you've been committing against your family and you want to skip them and say oh so what's the biblical basis for divorce and I'm saying no no no let's talk about the actual sentence and let's stop and think through why your wife would need to divorce you cuz it's only if you do that that you can actually understand what God's intention is for this situation and you can read the entire Bible cover to cover and understand God's will for this situation
speaker 1: I thought we were talking about the really really super long books so what I got into this conversation because he said you would tell me why you're divorcing
speaker 2: me I was trying but you wanted to skip right over to the Bible
speaker 1: the
speaker 2: Bible you know your trump card the one that lets your wife have to stay with you no matter what you do to her and I'm trying to talk to
speaker 1: you. You want to talk
speaker 2: to I want to talk to you about the actual biblical reasons so what were the
speaker 1: action right that's
speaker 2: what I'm trying to talk to you about that was what I was trying to talk to you about so what are the actual bad things that you did to me particularly those things that I can only escape from and only spare my children from through divorce can you think of any actual sins that you are continuing to commit that I could not escape from and I could not Escape my children being subjected to without getting protection from the legal system that God has put here to protect women and
speaker 1: children I mean I don't know honey I can't help you with that it's off so that means that you're not talking like because the system will underrated divorced for you based on government that that makes it a valid divorce
speaker 2: outside well okay there you go I provide some Dustin you're pretty quick I'm proud of that right there probably pretty seconds to seconds so so so off
speaker 1: with the argument quite honestly I'm saying that the legal system doesn't allow you to divorce me the government
speaker 2: the same. Put that. But that legal
speaker 1: to protect women and children may God put a legal system that allows abortions it's not a very rational argument
speaker 2: fruit but what was that song well yes that's what we're talking about we're talking about abuse we're talking about
speaker 1: abuse right so God also being the way that God protect
speaker 2: children from
speaker 1: the bad things to those children
speaker 2: this is a way that God protects women from very bad men who wish to do Very Bad Things To those women this is how God chooses to protect children from men who will do Very Bad Things To those children I'm talking about abuse okay okay I'm saying that's the reason that you can't see it and everybody else can see
speaker 1: that actually it's
speaker 2: because you're not you're not starting with behaviors and following through with the long-term effects that those are having on your children age you're not comparing them to what God requires of you as a man I know yeah that's completely Direction session
speaker 1: and it's it's not it is it that
speaker 2: it that it took you are an accuser you are evil you are actively doing bad things to your life you are actively doing bad things to your children you are going to be an extremely bad outcomes from your extremely evil actions and you're not dealing with the scent in your heart you should be the one who's protecting that woman and their children so this has been happening to them and said you're perpetrating since you're not protecting them I have placed George's employees here to protect them women and children that you are not protected as the perpetrator now after Todd puts the protection in place that God wants to put in place through the app that he's put on this Earth for the protection of women and children does home and she has being married probably
speaker 1: I can't understand you sound like you're talking
speaker 2: in the Bible it's in the Bible it says it's not meant to be God doesn't see that a married couple becomes a not married couple but it's because of your hardness of hearts that there is a legal provision for it and there was I mean does the hardness of your home I've never witnessed anything like it it's because of the hardness of your heart that God has placed in a legal conclusion for the Deliverance of your wife and children from Evil and from home which essentially I don't know I mean I'm assuming that you had commentary so you understand that the understanding which makes sense I
speaker 1: can't understand what you're saying I understand what what
speaker 2: like have you got any commentaries that are like against remarriage after divorce no okay then you've
speaker 1: got
speaker 2: people yeah
speaker 1: yeah yeah so
speaker 2: you get the people out there looking at the Bible with e r being situations where it would make sense to divorce but then not be permitted to marry another person afterward
speaker 1: I mean I don't think that they would have underwritten those divorces as far as the ones that I've read what the reason that you can't get remarried is that it's not a valid divorce okay okay
speaker 2: that's fine I wasn't looking for Madison to protect yourself from somebody who's actively harming you it's self defense every action you can think of that somebody would do in self-defense that would not be against the law would be against the law if they weren't trying to defend themselves against something you know what I'm saying you don't you don't go to somebody and say you know oh no you suck that man you say wow good job wage but murder is still against God's law we know this and it's just very very very very very backwards for you to be looking at a person who you were actively abusing an actively harming and say that they did something wrong by trying to set up protections for their children
speaker 1: I can say that I said it's from for us to get divorced and we don't have a Biblical
speaker 2: basis for you yes because you're the abuser night so so the power to stop it cuz all you have to do is stop the abuse so that's what's that's what's wrong it would be wrong of you because you have been called from lay down
speaker 1: that I'm talking about divorce the
speaker 2: children so it's going to be wrong on your part to not do everything in your power to stop it by actually laying down your own self-interest on your children that would be a fitting in the whole time that we were in in divorce and I you know I I fully recognize that you were interested in that and fully recognized or divorce is something that you would be held accountable for by God
speaker 1: so
speaker 2: yes in that sense yes divorce is in and ours was but it wasn't on the end of the victim that was you see it wasn't on the end of the person who was getting a legal protection from the courts that God has provided for victims that that sin was happening there I wasn't the one causing any of that I didn't choose to be abused by you I didn't do anything to your views so when when you feel those feelings that's kind of a it's more one of thousands of examples of home it's kind of how you're feeling yeah you you transfer your relatives in on to me and then you notice for my
speaker 1: Victim. To u university that's that's completely illogical with sever no there's no transferring whatsoever making all these comments about yeah I know how I should have been deferential to you and I'll be very cute against that off so that's not change anything you know that I know that's why when you asked which asked me what the reason
speaker 2: forget to vote able to make a list on all the abuse between them seemed completely unable to do that and if you could say the list make it difficult then you would see your you your sin off if you would make an actual list of all the sins and I'm not talking about I'm talking about how long you were perpetrating and still no
speaker 1: then
speaker 2: he would look at the divorce and he was going to divorce his offend it's really bad I should repaint as causing this you should take all of those thoughts you had about divorce being wrong and you should take that guilt and shame upon yourself for doing that terrible thing that is against God but if you make
speaker 1: if you make me be the Sinners decisions
speaker 2: know if you make me people sooner for filing the paperwork checked our family life backwards because what you really asking the Bible somehow put your wife and children in the situation where they're not allowed to get the protection
speaker 1: of the course well I just think that's what I called a while for it it's a thin so they know the divorce is a sin but
speaker 2: the cause of the divorce took the victim know if I'm remarried I would totally take it I would fully expect that you know at my level that our elders would stand up and say suck exact if I kick me out of the church and I lost my membership over that I would completely get it but we're talking about me trying to get protection from abuse using a worldly legal system that God has put here I don't really think I have a leg to stand on while you're still perpetrating the abuse you just did
speaker 1: home home and
speaker 2: that's why it's so important to understand what the abuse was actually wrap your arms around that because when you put it in my toes line off my wife everybody's done that Dustin that's really whitewashed that's not abused that's working too much or whatever you know honorable thing you want to claim you shouldn't I mean you shouldn't just be okay for divorce you should be hiring in favor of it because you more than anybody on the planet should want me protected by whatever means possible is necessary and I need you to feel that way in order for you to be a safe person for me to be with you don't have that you want me protected by whatever means necessary so you're not a safe person for me to be willing to go
speaker 1: to Voice I don't know what you mean by any means necessary already moved out of our house still
speaker 2: I mean if somebody was beating me up would you if somebody was beating me up and you thought that I was about to die would you shoot
speaker 1: them yes
speaker 2: killing is wrong killing is wrong I'm not going to support an unbiblical taking of life killing is wrong that's not biblical can you tell me show me in the Bible where it's biblical for you to shoot somebody else and
speaker 1: lots of dust in the Bible
speaker 2: and I don't and there's lots of infidelity in the Bible
speaker 1: okay I will spells out when it was a lot of service let me get divorced or not
speaker 2: okay so that's fine I act until I bought for you I act in self-defense I protect my children refuse and I'm still near me I have no problem with that you shouldn't either I said I can act in self-defense I can get my children legal protection from your abuse and I can be still married to you and that is fine with me I I can see that I have no biblical basis for saying that God has undone what he did when he joined us together okay I'm fine with that I'm not free to marry another okay I'm fine with that divorce is wrong just like killing is wrong okay well that's not holding it against me for acting in self-defense he's not he's not and anybody who wants me to not be allowed to protect myself like that is sick and is using the Bible in a sick way that God would not approve of because God's not sick like them you're sick like that God's not like that
speaker 1: I feel nervous like on the same page about biblical divorce and you know divorce me even though I believe that I should be treating me better yeah you're wrong from
speaker 2: what something that you're flat-out wrong you're flat-out wrong then coming out this biblical thing I know but you've not even read the whole Bible doesn't like myself God's put plenty of people on my account and stop me if I need to talk to you it's not a feeling Dustin it's not a feeling feeling feeling feeling
speaker 1: sick a
speaker 2: feeling is a
speaker 1: feeling but no I got a feeling really can't be
speaker 2: talking about your feelings about Sin and righteousness righteousness is black and white dog black
speaker 1: and white okay but that's not a Feeling you're
speaker 2: feeling scared that we're not going to get on the same
speaker 1: page that's what I said
speaker 2: and I'm saying like not that hard to get on the same page with somebody who's right it takes a dark heart to even start where you're starting on this topic
speaker 1: the
speaker 2: Bible know if using the Bible to justify keeping me obligated to endure abuse that's a good way to start that's not that's not where Jackie is started no
speaker 1: we just said that nobody thinks
speaker 2: that if you think that it is a sin for me to divorce you while you're actively abusing me then that's what you're saying I'm saying if you can't get too if you can't get I can't get
speaker 1: you can't get into it over assets and our children and our
speaker 2: home if you can't get sick it's not a sin to divorce a man who's abusing you
speaker 1: why can't I on the
speaker 2: Bible you plan you could read the whole thing and you could come to the same idea. It just like you're able to come to the idea that it's okay to confirm that who's attacking your wife if you read the whole Bible and you actually start picking out certain passages and trying to interpret just that passage based on the
speaker 1: situation I
speaker 2: if you want to read the entire I'm not
speaker 1: going to I've got like no interest in trying to justify as getting divorced anyway and not going to do
speaker 2: that I think it's pretty important I think it's pretty important that you understand that you could be important for you to understand that our marriage certificate and was not intended by God to keep me in bondage tributes it's pretty important that you understand that
speaker 1: nobody thinks that nobody said
speaker 2: you are you are you think that it would be within two years of user you absolutely you absolutely do not understand the Covenant whatsoever if you think that it's desire to keep Abused women in bondage it is true that's that's pretty
speaker 1: important it's not in the
speaker 2: Bible I don't think that tackle doctrines in the Bible
speaker 1: don't think what
speaker 2: castle doctrine in the
speaker 1: Bible what I
speaker 2: don't think that castle doctrine is in the Bible
speaker 1: it's not completely man-made construct well you understand self defense though don't you yeah that's a completely man-made construct to
speaker 2: somebody would be a soon as actively trying to move your wife
speaker 1: life you
speaker 2: don't believe that God recognizes the victim
speaker 1: victim honestly I have to study that more you seek God's heart and you need to study the whole Bible it is not a list of
speaker 2: rules best interests to interpret God sees the victim and when he sees a victim acting in self-defense if he's the hearts of the victims Thursday afternoon self-defense as being victims he doesn't hold the victimhood against them he doesn't blame the victims and you can read the whole Bible to understand God's heart and who he is you can read the whole Bible to understand when that provide my own behavior before and can I get the whole Bible to understand that on the day that I petitioned for divorce you're acting in sin you deeply deeply buried in your in and clean to you said all that you
speaker 1: had it doesn't mean that the divorce is enough in there and back
speaker 2: then I wasn't sitting Dustin I was being a victim God saw the hood God had some possible my victimhood gotta tell me on me for my victimhood he had compassion he didn't see me with them like you were seeing me he didn't see me as an offense to him like you were seeing me he saw me with compassion that's who got it seems like God of compassion and he provided a way out of Health and when he saw me signing those papers he wasn't thinking about how I needed to go to hell for signing those
speaker 1: papers let me send you that I know he was thinking
speaker 2: about that's what that's what sentence that's what you deserve for every I'm
speaker 1: not saying you're not okay to come to a stop here says
speaker 2: I'm not talking about being forgiven I'm talking about I'm talking about what was the sin I wasn't committing his name I was
speaker 1: getting divorced without a reason is I was going to be you were actively abusing me I was a
speaker 2: victim of abuse it was horrific everybody who saw you perpetrated music I thought it was horrifically you didn't feel that it was horrific you wanted to continue perpetrating it God's all the truth got some get a petition for divorce notarized and he knew that he was providing the awareness
speaker 1: safety by your logic you can justify doing anything on the basis of being a victim it sucks no I can't I can
speaker 2: only justify taking those steps necessary to protect myself and my children I can't justify killing you right because that's not necessary to protect stop
speaker 1: being a victim of my existence
speaker 2: and I can't do that because it would not be necessary because God has provided another way out for
speaker 1: me. just being sorry for I can only
speaker 2: specify I can only justify doing those things that are necessary for it self defense and that's what God provided because of the hardness of your heart
speaker 1: I'm sorry for arguing with you about this thank you I wish that you could
speaker 2: have just heard me because it would have been a lot more fruitful for you I gave you a lot of good information about me and I made myself extraordinarily vulnerable to you and that came at a cost you weren't giving me any new information about your stance because you knew that I already knew so it was a pretty fruitless argument to be honest 10 said he talked to you about that a lot what
speaker 1: that's why I said I'm sorry for arguing with
speaker 2: you had said he talked to you about that a lot yes but I want you to be able to see that you're doing it I'm doing what like you're you're making it an argument
speaker 1: Ted
speaker 2: said you know well not even he said it an actual argument is when you give me like your idea and I give you like my idea not going in circles about it off I think I think he and you might want to imagine like only takes two to tango there for doing the same thing Dustin's doing but in reality I was giving you actual new information about my position that you didn't have before in reality you were wanting to talk in circles about it you know what I mean
speaker 1: okay I said do you know
speaker 2: what I mean not really but I don't want to talk about it did you did you think that I already knew your position about our divorce
speaker 1: I don't know what you mean about so you thought I didn't know I don't know I don't
speaker 2: you gave me the letter January 9th
speaker 1: and remember that being in there
speaker 2: so you thought I didn't know
speaker 1: yes yeah it seems that you knew the Contemporary rationales and Christian theology
speaker 2: we are because I remember you telling me verbally a lot of times I thought it was I thought it was easily inferred by your letter
speaker 1: I'm sorry I don't remember if that
speaker 2: can't remember because it's been a lot of times we have some of them on recording
speaker 1: no that's weird you've got it I got to go I'll see you tonight love you by all right
speaker 2: bye