speaker 1: 
speaker 2: this call may be
speaker 1: recorded hey mommy hey how's it
speaker 2: going good how was
speaker 1: group good another one of my friends is leaving okay how is dinner good good
speaker 2: hey can I just might be a good time to tell you
speaker 1: something okay.
speaker 2: you have extraordinarily good social skills you make friends easily you are not awkward I
speaker 1: don't feel that way but thank you
speaker 2: can you see it objectively though
speaker 1: you understand that it's kind of like I've behavior that the natural to
speaker 2: me you understand that you do the behavior effortlessly
speaker 1: no you just
speaker 2: do see a person and you think I want them to think I'm friendly and then grew all the things going through and make somebody think
speaker 1: differently well feel like I messed it up a lot actually like it's not like weird natural but have you agree that much better at it than I used to be I don't think I said that you said I'm good at it yes
speaker 2: I didn't say better than you used to
speaker 1: be you don't think I better have it
speaker 2: used to be I don't know I mean if you're comparing it to like middle school or something everybody's awkward in Middle School
speaker 1: I'm better in college and better at it than when I started at fidelity it's gotten better at it well that's and you know do you think that's everybody okay
speaker 2: I don't think you're at a deficit to the general population or every
speaker 1: war thanks yeah
speaker 2: I just thought you might be able to see that at Honey Lake specifically like
speaker 1: may have made things here but I mean friends it's an outgoing people that helped me make other friends and it's a lot more difficult no money
speaker 2: so Megan's kind of right this having me make decisions for you is not a super healthy thing it it kind of continues a pattern of setting me up to be able to blame everything on me
speaker 1: I
speaker 2: don't know if you see that in our history sure huh
speaker 1: yeah did you see that no no
speaker 2: no no no I'm sorry did I misinterpret what you said
speaker 1: about her I remember
speaker 2: do you think that I went too far with it with what I just said not super healthy
speaker 1: mean I agree with you and I think that Megan wouldn't say that that's healthy but I don't remember characterizing it to me in those in that context okay. So we all see it right I'm not sure if she has not got I think that if it was explained to her issue would probably agree with that
speaker 2: wage there's a lot of ways to see it is unhealthy you can see it as unhealthy because clearly Dustin has nothing to live for except for Aaron and that's you know that in and of itself is problematic
speaker 1: because you know what I mean I agree with that huh I know that c believe that
speaker 2: yeah so that so that's number one Chevy but then another way to look at it is the history of you blaming everything on me not taking blame for the way
speaker 1: things turn out
speaker 2: you see that one
speaker 1: I guess it depends on what you mean by that I feel like I've ruined everything now dead but I did not do that earlier on
speaker 2: well I mean we've been together almost eighteen years now so if you're saying that you've started owning everything in the last three weeks I'm talking about historically okay okay I can understand that so it's a little bit of just in terms of like and I wouldn't even say three weeks I would say maybe maybe we're hitting 24 hours now so you know what I'm saying like three months from now you could who knows be back to all the old behaviors and really damaging our family and I say I can't do this anymore and then you'll say that whatever my scenario was the whole thing was a set-up you know you know what I mean
speaker 1: okay
speaker 2: am I offer a might like
speaker 1: yeah I'm not trying to do
speaker 2: that right but can you see that in terms of like historically and everything that you're worried about it I guess I'm I'm saying can you see that as a past Behavior
speaker 1: yes okay
speaker 2: are you saying that you don't feel like that's possible anymore
speaker 1: I don't think so but would you like to have
speaker 2: happen I don't know I I guess I don't
speaker 1: I thought if you were legitimately choosing
speaker 2: then I I think that I think that you're setting me up to look like I said I want to tell you where to live because that's what you're having trouble deciding on your own right now. and like the I know but but you're making it sound to other people like that's what I want like I want to decide where you're going to live and that is let me that you probably
speaker 1: this time all right
speaker 2: no no no I was quoting Ted who was probably tongue-in-cheek when he said you want to be a family with your wife will fine don't ever talk with her and don't ever have an opinion about anything again
speaker 1: like he
speaker 2: said that he told you that and I was going along with what he said but sorry huh were you saying something anyways but I think the last thing that I want is to dictate where you're going to live because what it does is it obscures the fact that through your Reckless Investments your work habits and your Reckless decision making and your Reckless abuse of your wife now the situation is this you know what I'm saying like the fact that if you come live at Stanley Drive I'm going to move out that's not my fault that's the scenario you created the fact that if you boot somebody out of one of our rentals then we can't make ends meet like that's not my fault of scenario that you created the fact that you can't afford a rental somewhere else that's not my fault that's a scenario you created the fact that it probably wouldn't be healthy for you to go live in Maryland with your mom that's not my fault you know what I mean
speaker 1: Dustin
speaker 2: I don't know if you are understanding what I'm saying so it's just I feel like it's a little bit problematic for me to now be the one who has to come up with a solution because whatever solution I come up with you need to present to the world as this is what my wife told me to do and I'm so amazing I will do anything my wife tells me to do and now I have two packs of here because my wife told me to and look at what a mortar I am to go and do what my wife is telling me to do when really any suggestion I make at this point is salvaging a really really really bad situation which it I think it would have been good and healthy for you to kind of figure out on
speaker 1: your own you called me and said that you wanted to make all of our decisions and that was the only way for us to try and make our marriage
speaker 2: or yeah I wasn't talking about this though I was talking about like for example let's say hypothetically you know I get home from summer vacation and I say you had an emotional affair I don't want you to go back to Cleo's tomorrow for lunch you wouldn't go to Cleo's the next week for lunch or if you obstinately continue to do that and in front of my face made a coffee for somebody you love more than me
speaker 1: and
speaker 2: other people said this is really unhealthy your husband needs to quit his job and I came to you and I said I need you to quit your job I'm turning your two-week you would turn in your 2 week dead or if I said to you we are really really offended by the smell of your cigar smoke I really need you to quit smoking cigars she would quit smoking cigars that's that's the kind of stuff I meant and and at this point it would also it would be more than that I'd have to be stuff like like you can't suck spend money because we actually don't have any money and your I know we're going to have to I don't know what we'll do whether you're going to have an allowance or you going to have to come to me and asked me to make purchases for you until we pay off the credit card debt that was what I meant I didn't mean that I'm going to figure out where you're going to live for you you know what I mean are you okay what
speaker 1: I don't know
speaker 2: what what
speaker 1: I appreciate you and I'm great now and I probably can't talk very much okay
speaker 2: is it because of your anxiety about where you're going to sleep next week
speaker 1: I don't know
speaker 2: is it because I'm hurting your
speaker 1: feelings
speaker 2: is it because I'm
speaker 1: not
speaker 2: is it because I'm not giving you a good solution I don't know are you saying that you now like have bad feelings but you can't tell what's causing them
speaker 1: absolutely
speaker 2: yeah you said you were overwhelmed and you couldn't talk but like I'm trying to figure out what's upsetting you so that I can avoided or subvert it but you can't tell me what is bothering you
speaker 1: I don't know I'm just on the edge of these in my mind and everybody here knows it can't do this sorry
speaker 2: I mean
speaker 1: I'm saying that you have to do it this can be this
speaker 2: you're saying that it's okay if I tell you to live and it's okay if I don't tell you where to live right but it's not okay to talk about the factors that make that a healthy or not healthy dynamic
speaker 1: I don't know I mean I think it's stressful for me because I'm not in a place where I can figure this out and now I'm going to have to ask my mom to figure it out I feel like no matter what she chooses you're going to be upset about it and then Thursday by going to be able to do anything else or I'm just going to end up in the
speaker 2: hospital well I don't ya I guess I guess to do something for me I'm just saying that I don't mind doing it but I think like if I make a suggestion like you can't just say oh I'm in such a bad place that I have to do what you decided for me because I don't think that that's healthy I think that's okay I think that that definitely like crosses a boundary like that should not cross cuz you need to be thinking at the same time cuz I
speaker 1: don't think that I can think I don't
speaker 2: again the problem is that I don't think everybody has a real understanding I don't think anybody has a real understanding of the entire situation like you know what I
speaker 1: mean maybe I need to try and extend another week here hopefully get my results from the doctor cut
speaker 2: out I think that you're putting a lot of stock in those
speaker 1: results I'm just looking for something to fix something to help me
speaker 2: I know but you already know what you need to fix you know
speaker 1: yeah but I feel like you've think I'm wrong or something
speaker 2: let me ask you this are you at a point where you're willing to quit your
speaker 1: job I guess okay I feel bad that they supported me while I'm here I just walk out
speaker 2: but right but who were you actually needing to care for in service at this point
speaker 1: yeah
speaker 2: I think when you remade Julia's coffee you had a problem with worrying more about pleasing somebody at American classic than about caring for your
speaker 1: family all right
speaker 2: so I don't know if that part has changed
speaker 1: yet it has okay
speaker 2: cuz the only thing that I have come up with at this point is that you could go to set free by the sea
speaker 1: if I tell them that here they're going to send me to a hospital or commit
speaker 2: me what do you think that they would think is a good option for you
speaker 1: I think they think that I should live in one of our houses I think so we tried to find an apartment that would be comparably priced and
speaker 2: couldn't so they think that you should be
speaker 1: alone I mean I don't know about that I think they were hoping by the time I got out of here I'd be in a better place which is why I'm saying they may not let me out of
speaker 2: here I know I'm just saying objectively do you think that you should be alone
speaker 1: so you don't know
speaker 2: I mean living in a nice area of a resort island not able to cover your expenses every month with the majority of your payment's going to service credit card debt and I don't really understand about the looking for apartments thing I mean there's there's a hundred apartments under $1,000 in Jacksonville and most of them you can move into this week I don't I don't really get the problem with finding an apartment if your mom's paid for it has your mom been talking to them and I just don't see how you get there if you know how to do adding and subtracting and if you know that you're suicidal
speaker 1: can't be institutionalized forever here and they realize that I'm the only person working in our family I've got to get back to my life who told you that tell me what
speaker 2: who told you that you had to get back to
speaker 1: work everybody knows that don't who told you that again everybody knows that can't stay here
speaker 2: forever oh I know that was why I was offering you set free Ted gave me the impression that he thought that you needed a lot more than 30 days and it's just unfortunate that the price point at Honey Lake is such that nobody can stay for six months off but I don't know if they would support that for you because it's not like you know medical like they just they just preach Jesus which is which is why I like it can't can't be me telling you to do it you know
speaker 1: well how are you okay
speaker 2: are you okay
speaker 1: hey there yeah sorry down really bad yeah no I'm glad you're okay they don't know what to say I mean something I'm losing my mind and I need somebody to help me and I think that I don't even know it seems like it said things that I need to stay here and have the ability to stay here that maybe I should say
speaker 2: yeah but another week
speaker 1: then what I think I'll get my line
speaker 2: back but I mean I don't know what you mean by get my mind back you want to go back to being an
speaker 1: abuser are you going to try and talk to
speaker 2: Megan I did I left you two voicemails and one
speaker 1: email which means that she probably thinks I'm
speaker 2: trying to interfere
speaker 1: I mean
speaker 2: have you used the word abuse with her
speaker 1: yeah I don't talk to her very much though
speaker 2: but right I'm just saying like did you did you like say like I've been abusive to my wife it's been going on in various forms
speaker 1: no I did not understand so we were
speaker 2: dating so I mean how did you say it
speaker 1: I don't know I
speaker 2: mean did you say she says I'm abusive and I don't know what she's talking
speaker 1: about I might have said that at some
speaker 2: point which is what you told Sean Gossett whenever you would go to what like Chick-fil-A or McDonald's or wherever with him you remember not really but I figured out Dustin that there were a lot of times that you were going to be with Shawn that something in mainly where did you go home like insanely insanely deranged abusive dysfunctional Behavior happened and we had two little kids and I was pregnant which was a total like nightmare and I would say to you did you tell Sean what happened last night and you'd say I don't remember I think so then it'd be like no did you tell him you're like yes I definitely told him
speaker 1: okay I've
speaker 2: figured out that was not true recently and I figured out that when we went over to Sean's house that whole conversation I was stupidly assuming that he knew all that stuff and he didn't all he knew was how much you love me and how good you were to me and how I always said that you were verbally abusive and that's why they thought that I was just really sensitive anyways there's a big difference between my wife says I'm abusive and I don't know what she's talking about and I've actually been abusing my wife for a really long time and going to extreme lengths to cover it up and when people caught me in the ACT I denied it
speaker 1: I'm trying to get Megan enough to yeah
speaker 2: don't you think that you're just setting me up though to look like I'm making all of this up cutting out don't you think that by doing that you'll really like setting the stage to make me look like I'm making this all up or trying to frame you
speaker 1: no
speaker 2: it seems like you sound really co-dependent like when you talk to her
speaker 1: so depending on
speaker 2: you yeah yeah like I'm an abuser and I get off on bossing you around and gaslighting you into thinking that you're crazy and that's how I get power and control over em but I've got you so good that you're like a puppy dog who will do anything for me cuz you love me you don't think that's how it looks to her
speaker 1: I think that's how it looks to her and I'm need you to athlean so that I can get help I
speaker 2: guess but I'm saying like why can't you tell her
speaker 1: yourself I don't know
speaker 2: I don't either but by telling her that I have to be the one to tell you cuz you don't see it you're setting me up to look like I'm making it up if you just tell her yourself and it'd be a lot more clear you feel like you can't
speaker 1: oh honey I've been here for a month over
speaker 2: a month I know but you can change like you can show that you can change
speaker 1: I tried to tell them our whole story I don't write as much time as I would like with but I
speaker 2: know but if the story doesn't include like I've abused my wife if it includes I just can't see it I just can't see it I just can't see it like those are two different stories and you're choosing which one to tell
speaker 1: all
speaker 2: right so you think that they think that we should just be essentially filing bankruptcy I just don't understand the idea of you living in a house you can't afford or they you're saying that they like the idea of your mom paying us rent yeah they look bad idea did you tell them what your mom does
speaker 1: yeah
speaker 2: did you tell them that she gets really giddy about
speaker 1: divorces yeah
speaker 2: did you tell them that you don't know how but she's going to hurt your wife with this
speaker 1: arrangement don't think so I think
speaker 2: you just presented it as though that's what I think is going to happen so why do they think that you're not going to move into one of our rentals but but seriously like did you tell them how much it costs I don't get it or rentals all over Jack's for under $1,000 did you look yourself or my mother to pay for it
speaker 1: during my therapy session and if I move into I Reynolds and I'm not subject to a lease so if we end up getting back together we can actually do it it's closer to our children gives me the opportunity to fix up whichever one we're in if it means it just
speaker 2: did they know anything about what happens when you fix something
speaker 1: up I'm not pretty to get involved in a
speaker 2: project I know but are you really capable of avoiding getting involved in a project I mean that is a joke I I mean that's that's like a giant this huge Dustin that's huge that is like just think how long that thing has been going on in owning you like do they know
speaker 1: dealing dustrial construction very the year now
speaker 2: it's got nothing to do with it does I don't known what you're spending all the money it loads for for a year now for a year now you just keep spending money at Lowe's I don't know why but I know we didn't have any of it and I know it's costing way more now do you know
speaker 1: what yeah what was it but what was that
speaker 2: what you spent all the money at most for I don't know huh I don't know and that's like without an actual project going on that you should be spending money at Lowe's for I just can't even imagine I just can't even imagine nothing
speaker 1: I don't remember what it was for but it wasn't
speaker 2: was it for one of our
speaker 1: properties did you send a check for the plumbing no it makes more sense to me live close to our children and our home without a leaf
speaker 2: Justin have you explained to the people at Honey Lake why I've had to go out of my way to drive far away from our house 15 minutes before you're expected to pick up my kids and my mom has to come to our house to be with the kids when you're picking
speaker 1: them up off no honey I don't
speaker 2: understand then I I have to drive away from our house 15 minutes before you're expected to bring them back and my mom has to come be here with them until you
speaker 1: leave and tell them why cuz I don't understand why
speaker 2: that's not true though that's not true that's not none of this is true you know but you know that you were being really really really aggressive and you were being really unkind that's really inconsiderate of What kinds of things the children were hearing and seeing you know that you came over to Kevin and Brianna's house after like the first page and the first time that you kept the kids overnight he brought them to Kevin and Brianna's house the next day Sam was wandering around the front yard and a day is in Brianna went to check on him and he was so sad and you said it was so sad we had to wait all morning while daddy cleaned his truck the first time that you had the kids over here overnight same wandered around the yard and a day is it would bring in a said how you doing buddy you said I'm so sad we had to wait all morning while dad cleaned out his truck off and then you came in and you you shamed me you shamed me for putting our kids in public school and you told me that I had to talk to you about it and that I wasn't co-parenting well and that we had a responsibility to discuss these things and your tone and all of that it was not kind like I'm busy right now it was short and it was judgmental and it was ugly and it was definitely threatening and very scary and you've come all too comfortable speaking to me that way because it yields results and you want to say to me speaking the truth isn't ugly I I know Dustin I know that you know how to not get arrested I know that you know how to get away with being threatening I know that you know how to control me and make the words be ones that you could write down on paper and not not get in trouble for I know that but now other people have seen it Kevin was blown away it was really scary it was really creepy other men do not talk to women that way
speaker 1: it
speaker 2: was very entitled it was very controlling you didn't respect boundaries when I asked you to stop you didn't respect boundaries when I explained that I wasn't obligated to do this without you didn't respect boundaries when I left and you tried to convince them but I had done something wrong you didn't respect boundaries when I came back in and Simon was upset me that you were talking loudly and people were ignoring his needs you didn't care when I told you Simon is upset right now we need to stop this so that if we can tend to the children's needs I'd like you to go now
speaker 1: I
speaker 2: had to tell Kevin I'm going to I had to say again I know but you were doing something in front of them that was upsetting to them you were speaking in a very threatening very ugly very shaming tone of voice and you were being asked to stop and I said if the next thing that comes out of your mouth is going to be somehow blame me or shame me then I'm going to have to ask you to go and you did it again and I said that that was just blaming and shaming you get in front of Simon Simon is getting upset I just told you if you did it again you're going to have to go happens again I'm going to have to ask Kevin to back me up cuz at that point I had already asked you to leave off and then you did it again you open your mouth to try to make me look bad and blame me and shame me for not speaking to you this is all because you think that you are entitled to me talking to you I'm a news flash you're not Dustin you're not entitled I'm an adult and if I'm not comfortable because I've been abused by you if I'm not comfortable talking to you because of
speaker 1: how long nobody thinks that I'm entitled to you talking to
speaker 2: me you did you were asked to leave the law residence I did and you decided to make an no you didn't you stood right there and you didn't even move afoot you stood right there and you tried to make an argument again off for why what I was doing was wrong because I couldn't enroll your kids in public school without having a conversation first and Brianna told you if you think that that we have a problem then huh you were making an argument that I had to talk to you you were after you'd already been asked to physically vacate a price that does not
speaker 1: have to talk to me it's just they're my children too
speaker 2: I know I remember the whole how the whole thing went down and I'm glad that you're using a nice tone of voice about it today but we can't like take the tone of voice that you're using today wage and go back in time and superimpose it you were being extremely aggressive and it's a way that you've gotten away with speaking to me for a long time and it gets results with me because it's so awful and it's so degrading and it's so humiliating I would do anything to avoid including cowering to whatever your Will is at the moment and you don't even have to say what your will is I can pivot around until I figure out what calms you down and decide that that's how I need to behave like a good
speaker 1: girl it's
speaker 2: it's how you operate and it's a deeply ingrained pattern and it's a little bit creepy that you can look back at the creepiness that you did in front of Kevin and Brianna at their house when you had been asked to vacate the premises and you can think that it's a good idea to tell me that that was good behavior on your part Brianna said that she went outside and she asked you to leave and she said it was making her really uncomfortable that you were still there after you'd been asked to
speaker 1: leave I left the house Kevin came out and talked with me willingly and she came out and asked him to ask me to leave and I
speaker 2: did you turned the cabin and you said I was under the impression this was your house to
speaker 1: do. Yeah he was there willingly talking to me that's
speaker 2: pretty trying to characterize
speaker 1: like I wasn't welcome there when we were having a amicable conversation
speaker 2: so yeah but you knew it was her property too and she's a female and she was uncomfortable most men would stop you know you turn the cabin you said I was under the impression it was your property to dude like you weren't going to listen I don't remember seeing that
speaker 1: each other outside
speaker 2: and then would look at a woman and say oh my presence is making her uncomfortable they they would like have a dry protect women from feeling like that particularly when it's that woman's private property they wouldn't say oh it takes a man with big muscles tell me to leave like Brianna is a woman and that is her home and she was uncomfortable and she asked you to leave you were buying really aggressive and you were being really shaming with your words and you weren't being respectful when one woman asks you to go and then you weren't being respectful when another woman asked you to go but this is like part of a really long pattern I mean I'm just telling you like the first you know what I mean the first after we split up but the following week I moved here and our house and I asked you to leave and you wouldn't leave I asked you leave you still wouldn't leave I asked you to leave your making excuses entered a fake helps him get his coat off I've got to help see him get his shoes off you know that I know how to take a child's coat off you know that I know how to take a child shoes off you know that you had a a message from me on Halloween you know that you suck message from me saying that I was fearful of being in this house because you just proved that you're not willing to vacate a premises when you're making people uncomfortable and they've asked you to leave you just proven that at the laws house and that's the reason that I didn't move back in here when you moved to the McDonald's you knew that you knew that that wage this house sat vacant while you were living at the McDonald's is cuz I was scared to be here because if I was here and I asked you to leave I couldn't call the police or the sheriff and ask them to remove you at least at the loss I could do that because I had the actual property owner and you weren't one of them but I asked you to leave and you wouldn't leave and you said to me I can sleep here tonight if I want to you said I can sleep here tonight if I want to knowing that I was uncomfortable knowing that I'd ask you to leave knowing that I was scared to live in a house where you weren't going to leave when you were asked to these are all like predatory
speaker 1: behaviors are you worried that I'm going to sneak into our house understand that
speaker 2: no I'm worried that when you're standing there and I'm asking you to leave you're going to stand them say I don't have to leave here in front of our children do you understand how psychologically damaging it is for them to have to hear that do you understand like how male predatory that is to know that a woman is scared of you and her to express that and you not behave in ways that are respectful of that and make her feel safe
speaker 1: I'm sorry that I've ever made you feel unsafe I'm sure you are
speaker 2: now that you weren't any of the times it was working for you you weren't any of the time I was walking on eggshells you weren't any of the time so that I was careful what I said to you you weren't any of the times that I didn't bring up some thing that you were doing that was really making our life hell like it's it's always working
speaker 1: to the care providers here so that they can get
speaker 2: you know that no no no you're going to stop this blame-shifting okay this is not my fault I know what the behaviors are you know what the behaviors are you know that I know but you know that I've left voice mails and you know that they don't have time to talk to me and you know that when I reach out to them it makes me look as though I'm trying to frame you for something like you need to stop interrupting the dead actual substance of what you need to change in your behaviors to try to tell me it's my fault that I'm not talking to your care providers that's not a real thing you know that there were boundaries there and you know that you crossed them intentionally and you know that you were trying to assert your right to do
speaker 1: so I think that if I add an address to happened with our children in the school that I would be a terrible father
speaker 2: and that wasn't the right way to go about it Dustin to speak to your wife she needs to be ashamed of herself to raise your voice at her too I mean I have a great show me the right way to go about it would be to send me a message in Our Family Wizard that says Jeep
speaker 1: your family wizard had it Our Family
speaker 2: Wizard I know but that would be the right way to go about it or or if you wanted to sit down at the page if you sit down at the table the thing to say would would be to say so who is Lucy's teacher it doesn't she nice you didn't need to shame me for doing it without your permission they're your children to you had every right to enroll them in public school
speaker 1: and I
speaker 2: didn't do anything wrong if I'd done something wrong you could have me arrested for it I didn't I didn't there's nobody I've ever told that to who who says you did
speaker 1: something wrong and so you did something illegal
speaker 2: Aaron I know so you didn't need to shame me for you didn't need to sit down and say yeah I have a right tonight illegal does that mean it's my cuz it's legal for you to divorce
speaker 1: doesn't mean it's right it's not right to take my children and make a life-changing decision with them without even Consulting me cuz it's not right
speaker 2: Dustin what's not right is to be verbally and emotionally and psychologically abusive to your family and that's what was happening when I spoke to you so if I was avoiding speaking to you then I was doing a good and righteous thing you want to blame people's reactions to your abuse like that's the problem that's just what happens when you verbally abuse people it's a good thing for them to respond by not wanting to talk to you anymore because if they don't evidently it just gets worse and worse and worse for eighteen years
speaker 1: in
speaker 2: today you somehow think that what you did at Kevin and Brianna's house was good father of the year okay awesome but like are you still able to hold onto the reality that you hunted me down in the church hallway when the sermon started
speaker 1: can
speaker 2: you just access that directly now that you've reached it
speaker 1: I mean I know what happened in the church hallway say that but can you make it sound like I accosted you or something yeah you did and I asked
speaker 2: you didn't see me in the hallway you waited till the one time that you could get what woo so so you've reverted you've gone back into La
speaker 1: La Land it's not
speaker 2: no it's true Dustin it was really good for you to come out of that no it is delusional think that you happen to see me in the hallway and asked me a simple question
speaker 1: no I followed you into the
speaker 2: hallway I know but you had to plan for a time that you would be able to get me you couldn't just talk to me after the service you can just talk to me before the service we could call me on the phone you can just drop by my house like you you had to strategize like a predator how to stand in the doorway of the nursery so that it couldn't get back to my seat to your councilman without you having a chance to the doorway of Thunder three I was in the
speaker 1: hallway but I'm sorry that I talked to you at
speaker 2: church but do you know that way that you talked to me the tone of voice that you used was extremely threatening is extremely accusatory it was extremely shaming it was extremely scary then
speaker 1: accused you of anything here and I asked you
speaker 2: why the and then our kitchen yeah, they accuse you of so I drove by our house yesterday because I was thinking there's a chance you wouldn't be home but you were
speaker 1: home to get my
speaker 2: shovel and it's for sure I'm quoting you you did not say to get my shovel I'm quoting you so that you can understand the ones you said I pitched for it no you didn't say my Pitchfork you said and I don't know why it's changing from a pack to a pitchfork but that's beside the point you're just trying to change
speaker 1: the subject with a pitch for it went to get my
speaker 2: pitchfork I don't know why
speaker 1: I might not be home but you
speaker 2: were just changing it then you should have to change it you shouldn't have to interrupt me telling you what yes you are I want to suck the interrupt me telling you what you actually said to change it to make you look like it was some innocent casual conversation that could have just happened cash a loaner up you know sitting on the row of church when Church ended like you're trying to make it sound so SuperCash like you understand you have to get me alone to say
speaker 1: so long we
speaker 2: I went by her house yesterday because I thought there was a chance you wouldn't be home and I could get my tool but you were home and so was a man in our kitchen do you want to tell me who that was and when I went to tell Allison you stalked me you know that I looked scared in the hallway it's a
speaker 1: one-way hallway and I let you
speaker 2: know I know but you saw my face saw my face and you knew that you had me you saw my face I wasn't yeah you know I was scared what had me wanting to flee you saw that I wanted to flee from you it's a face you've seen plenty of times you're well familiar with it when I want to flee from you you know that you've got me right where you want me you saw my face you knew that I was uncomfortable even though I didn't want to be in the hallway talking to you you knew that I wanted to get away you knew that when I whispered to Allison what had happened you were behind me and you were saying that he he drove a white truck who had a white truck and then you know that you said you don't have to tell me but I'm willing to spend money to find out and then you know that you continue to stand there as if you had some right to it and it was until I took Brendan see that you finally walked away and took my seat back on the second row you know all of these things like you don't need me to explain to you and and you understand I'm only telling you about the scenarios that other people have witnessed the fact that this kind of predatory behavior has been happening happening to me behind closed doors all the time on the phone all the time that I live my life with somebody who controls me through really really really threatening tones and accusatory tones and ways of twisting situations around to make it that I did something shameful and not right even if it's illegal and the fact that she can't say any of that without you saying not right what saying the truth isn't saying the truth isn't abuse so it's abusive to ask a question it's abusive to okay so now ask you a question is abuse like that that's the level of me being able to have any right to not be treated that way has been so now I can only tell you about the times that people have witnessed because that's the only place where I have a leg to stand on his okay somebody else saw
speaker 1: this
speaker 2: but it was only drawn into the light because I set up those communication barriers in the first place the only reason the laws were able to see it was because I moved into their house and refused to be alone with you the only reason Kate was able to see it because before and after the surface service people were actually looking out for me
speaker 1: I'm sorry that I mean do you feel so
speaker 2: scared yeah but you think I did something wrong to think that you had some kind of right to it
speaker 1: right to what you
speaker 2: had to write a car rented out for enrolling our kids and public school children right but adorable man way of like like imagine coming to ask Jamie why she enrolled the kids in public school just like actually try to pull that out in your brain you
speaker 1: would not enrolled her kids in public school without asking if
speaker 2: she does all kinds of things and see his never abused his wife and given her a reason to have to try to avoid communication
speaker 1: with him I've done a lot of work and
speaker 2: but none of its let you come around not a
speaker 1: good leader to you and I have a
speaker 2: new but there's all and those are all just attractions from the real abuse you can imagine that it was because you weren't home enough guess what you being home would have been my worst nightmare
speaker 1: you know what I mean again
speaker 2: you're coming up with this long list of stuff that I'm supposed to pretend is what the problem was but the way you talk to me in front of Kevin Brianna was not okay and Kevin has never never talked to Brianna that way once and they've been together almost as long as we have
speaker 1: never
speaker 2: and you do it like three times a week after you didn't have some kind of excuse for doing that you're just trying to control the through shame that's emotional manipulation you're choosing to try to make me feel bad in order to get me to do what you want and at that time what you wanted was unlimited access to communication with me because you felt entitled to suck
speaker 1: cuz you're the children's
speaker 2: father in reality if you had a question about their education
speaker 1: unlimited communication I don't
speaker 2: yeah but you had a right to it you felt entitled to it without take off children without taking I know you can say tell me about the children when they said no you didn't you walked in and they made that decision without consulting me how long are we going to discuss this what we're what were your justifications for making a major change without consulting me that I'm saying that is not a way see a would talk to James and no you can't pretend that she never done something without his consent that he didn't agree with you can't you can't and if she if she was specifically not telling him because she felt like he had been verbally abusive to her off well guess what he wouldn't have gone out of his way to be extra for school with his words to prove that she had no right to withhold her communication from him and accused him of being verbally abusive he would actually be extra gentle because he would recognize that it's his responsibility to make sure his wife never feels like he's trying to harm her emotionally in order to get his
speaker 1: way I will try to be extra gentle the vehicle
speaker 2: you didn't you didn't you decided that it was your right and I'd done something shameful and wrong and it was your your job was to come and set the record straight that I had no right to be doing things without your consent
speaker 1: and
speaker 2: then when we tried to say okay what is your question what is it that you need to know about the children's education you said it's not even about that it's about the principle she should talk to me like that's that's
speaker 1: before making a major change.
speaker 2: I'm sorry this is I'm sorry I did nothing wrong and you should be saying nothing to me right now except well done amazing Mama I'm so glad that God has blessed me with the woman who I can trust is going to make the right decisions for our children's education off even when I'm
speaker 1: abusing her
speaker 2: I'm really blessed
speaker 1: you are a big blessing to me and our children
speaker 2: that's all you needed to say that's all you needed to say that's all that needed to be said you didn't have any actual concerns about our children's education I haven't actually done anything wrong I haven't I done nothing wrong you had every month every bit as much right to go and check the kids out of school and start homeschooling them yourself as I had to go and check them in and sign them up in the first place I did nothing wrong and you shouldn't be trying to control me through shame and blame and those kinds of manipulation tactics I wasn't speaking to you because you had been so emotionally abusive to me and that is something that you should fully support any woman you see being mistreated like that by her husband on a consistent basis after she's begged and pleaded and begged and pleaded and gotten other people to come in and beg and plead with him to stop the abuse you should be the one encouraging her to set those boundaries you should be the one trying to help her find ways to not be getting harmed like that and not only every woman in the world should you be protecting from that kind of harm as a chivalrous man but there's one woman in particular that you've been assigned to protect from being mistreated like that and you should be the first person raising your hand to say I think that she should not talk to them until she can be treated right because that's what she
speaker 1: deserves it's absolutely what I believe here and I
speaker 2: know you believe that I did something wrong and I deserve to be shamed for it because someone needed to put me in my place that I had no right to remove your children in school that's completely different you
speaker 1: don't have a right to enroll my children at school I said that we should discuss what happens with their children before we decide
speaker 2: anything right now say that that is not the case right now you should be able to look back and go then discussing anything it was a reasonable communication boundary within that context for us to not be discussing
speaker 1: things it wasn't until after that that you said that we could
speaker 2: communicate anyway that's not true I told you that we couldn't know I told you over there I told you that we couldn't communicate without a third party present prior to Kevin and Brianna getting back from the keys so that had already been set present wage I know you walked in because the third party was president but you were trying to shame me for having to put having kids in school without talking to you first and I'm saying the reason I didn't talk to you first choice is because I couldn't talk to you because you are so awful to me you would bend being awful to me and other people saw you being awful to me and it's been going on for a really long time and you were not home and you were not indicating that you had some kind of intention of exploring what this problem was with you being emotionally abusive to your wife you were claimed that you had every right to do everything you were doing that everything you were doing was fine and that I needed to live with it that was what was being indicated at that time and that being the case you should fully support be caring for our children in whatever way is best without exposing myself to abuse you should not be saying that I did something wrong by doing what was best for our children and at the same time choosing not to subject myself to emotional abuse
speaker 1: I realize it was so late I kind of go turn my in my phone
speaker 2: all right so
speaker 1: I will keep working on myself for forever until I am like Jesus that's all I know. For you okay
speaker 2: all right well that for you is definitely off the table though I will
speaker 1: incident to them here but you want me to if you
speaker 2: tell them my wife wants
speaker 1: to you want me to quit my job and go live it set for you that's going to be more expensive than me living in a house I really do have to go I'm sorry trying to 8 in the
speaker 2: morning yeah it just seems to me like if you were doing something like that then you'd obviously be actually working on changing the patterns of abuse
speaker 1: and
speaker 2: we could like you know get our parents to pay off the credit card debt and just pay them from now on and like from the beginning I mean you know when you got home from Cape Cod or church said that they would support us
speaker 1: financially I don't know that that's still on the table and I don't I don't know I can't really talk about it more right now but okay I love you okay let it do you forever and then I'm sorry that I've ever hurt you sorry
speaker 2: well the denial is a big problem at this point actually at every point that denial is a big problem
speaker 1: I'm sorry I know I love you bye-bye