speaker 1:  hey
speaker 2: hey I heard about that all right I guess what you're going to have to do then I don't know I mean I would say like oh get Ted to call me and tell me but he thinks that victims of domestic abuse should isolate themselves from friends and family who loves them and can help them see truth and get into a clinical setting that is similar to the ones where
speaker 1: they've all right I mean
speaker 2: it doesn't seem different times around on that particular ability for the whole thing they're asking me to do with you outside outside of the license to see it objectively I know but how many times have we been to a licensed wage before Dustin and how is it ended every time
speaker 1: really been brought into it there before quite honestly but
speaker 2: well you've been pretty bought into pulling the wool over their eyes I mean I don't know how much more seriously you could take it I don't I don't see anything in my life that's ever victimized me as much as taking you I mean granted that time was Sean and that was terrible that was horrifically terrible that was bizarrely and horrifically terrible but again I think that part of that might have been me going in there not knowing that you had told me you told Shawn thank you haven't really told Shawn and they've been crying in that pump for a couple of years for him to think that I was imagining all of this cuz I'm sensitive
speaker 1: but
speaker 2: even outside of that I think that's why you can look at it and you can go location on The Godly Man Sean is a wise man that's not somebody to be going to for marital counseling like that's where what I'm saying applies but distinguished you're referring to wear Darren was right from the get-go and then your cover-up was way worse than the original crime and he saw it every step of the way and I was able to affirm that these behaviors that you were using to cover up your bear with Julie with the same behaviors that you used to keep me in bondage to pretending that I was on your team for you to go and sleep at a different house and get us you know $140,000 in debt like it there's nothing there that screams oh this is the person who's canceling you shouldn't
speaker 1: follow are you talking about
speaker 2: Aaron New Year affirming it like you're affirming that he wasn't wrong about
speaker 1: anything I don't understand what you're saying right now
speaker 2: I'm saying that we will never have a future outside of you be willing to be accountable to real people off our friends and
speaker 1: family yeah but nobody's ever suggested that so I don't
speaker 2: so I'm saying if you want to get on the page with same page with c a and then say that you're going to spend the rest of your life pursuing following his counsel that's a healthy thing if you want to get on the same page with Aaron and say that you're going to spend the rest of your life pursuing following his counsel that's a healthy thing but if you're just going to Target me and say I'm the one that needs to get in alone alone in a room with a counselor with you and I need to believe that you're pursuing nothing besides honoring me for the rest of your life that is scary that is really really scary and it's really scary to me honestly going to a person I've never met before and having a stupid back and forth with you about whether you left the law residence when you were asked to Thursday like it's not that hard to make me look fat when I'm the only one
speaker 1: are you about huh I don't know I guess I don't understand I don't see the value in arguing about it we don't remember it
speaker 2: sure did a minute ago like we we had like a 20 luus
speaker 1: baguette I apologize for arguing with you. I know if you think that I think it's okay to stay in somebody's house when they don't want you I do not think that that's why
speaker 2: I know you make up a different reality that helps herself in it's in white and white image of yourself to be it is it's made up Dustin it's made up you you actually rewrite history so that what happened can fit in Georgia with your perception of who you want to be as a man you want to be the kind of man who would never stay after he's been asked to go there for that's what happened three other pairs of eyes and ears saw and heard something different and when it's just you and me in a room it's my word against yours and my faulty memory which is clearly slipping in recent years that has is perceiving image we've been how it really happened you know so I can't tell you those millions of stories where I've been manipulated and I've been left powerless to say what actually just happened to me before I own eyes because there were no witnesses that your word against mine
speaker 1: but
speaker 2: when you've got three and four and five and six people in a room and you're the only one who saw you do something different than what you did or say something different than what you said that's a whole nother story and that's why I don't want it to be my word against yours in a room with a counselor who's going to
speaker 1: say bring it to get to the bottom of the truth I'm just saying
speaker 2: how about do that and leave me out of it because I've not done anything wrong except the victim
speaker 1: I'm
speaker 2: not the one who's making all of this up I'm not not the protagonist I'm not I didn't write this story I didn't wasn't my idea for you to do any of this stuff to me so I don't need to be I don't need to be involved I don't need to be involved and you
speaker 1: coming yep sorry about that
speaker 2: you understand what I'm saying right
speaker 1: and I think that it leaves me a little less I think that it goes against that I received here nothing
speaker 2: more is that some kind of support abusers to get their victim back into a cycle Clinic I don't get it that would literally be like what you would write in a textbook to teach abusers how to get their victim back into the cycle to the
speaker 1: T and
speaker 2: what I can't hear you anymore
speaker 1: what don't know how to help this getting what living with what what near me
speaker 2: yeah what is it
speaker 1: I've been getting counseling professional for an extended period of time I've been living with with psychological problems I'm doing it it's kind of a better person for five what I can work on what I need to do and their professional opinion they have assured me that and it says in somebody's
speaker 2: lying let me ask you this did they drug test you and you got there did they drug test
speaker 1: you you're for drug test what yes we can what yes I think you can three or four quick pass by I just wonder why they do
speaker 2: that people here that are getting a second I just wonder why they do that why do you think they do
speaker 1: that people here that are coming out with rep
speaker 2: but what's the test needed
speaker 1: for make sure that you're not
speaker 2: bad they come on Dustin do you really believe that do you think they tested me for drugs I mean I find it pretty peculiar
speaker 1: don't you
speaker 2: like they could just ask you about your drug use and they would just know like automatically without a urine sample whether you're manipulating them or lying they don't need to compare your words to reality exactly so if they're asking you why are they getting the urine sample like explain
speaker 1: looking at are we
speaker 2: having I know but like if they can tell when somebody's telling the truth or lying or manipulating then they don't need the urine sample they don't need to compare them with the person is saying with their mouths to an objective reality to make a decision about whether that person is manipulative completely unnecessary right so Ted tells me oh I don't consider what dust is doing the trick me to count as manipulation I know manipulation because I work with drug addicts who are really manipulative you know why the drug addicts are manipulative because you can catch them in their lives because what they're saying doesn't match objective realities but they have that objective reality to put in front of that person it's see that person's reaction of talking their way out of
speaker 1: IT. Staff of clinicians
speaker 2: forward who has not reached out who have not reached out for any objective reality to compare your delusions
speaker 1: to and I
speaker 2: cutely for you to speak with them that's what I'm saying is a little bit questionable it's a little bit questionable for you to put all your stock in these people have cleared me and I am not manipulative because only the drug addicts are manipulative you know the people who they are able to confront with an objective reality and actually don't trust enough that they actually have enough judgment to know whether that person is manipulative to forgo the urine sample
speaker 1: it's so difficult for me because I want the you know be able to get there together just saying if
speaker 2: you can tell me that advice was good you shouldn't have been writing messages to try to shame me for keeping my children from you that's not a thing he would ever do his life that's terrible
speaker 1: and
speaker 2: you know that that's the thing that he's not wanting you to
speaker 1: do but you did it and you did it you told you that you did it
speaker 2: knowing he wouldn't approve you did it because you were in the mode
speaker 1: not approved by them
speaker 2: you know he would not approve of that message you sent me saying that I acted in a manipulative manner to cheat you out of a weekend he would never he would never do his wife like that and she is way way way more stubborn and independent than I am she's really really Dustin high-maintenance she's really like Persnickety and she really liked pushes her weight around to get her way so you can't play any of this well his wife is so good that's why he doesn't have to resort to what I have to resort to with my rebellious wife you can't play that card she's the rebellious one she's the complainer I'm the submissive one and you know when you write messages to me like that that he would not approve of them if you were living under his roof me
speaker 1: about somebody who wanted me to give up my children all the
speaker 2: time no Dustin you're talking about somebody who is objective enough money to understand that Aaron dufoe is trustworthy and acting honorably and not actually taking your children away from you the concept that I'm taking your children away from you is a fabrication to defame her to other people
speaker 1: he
speaker 2: knows that he can live in objective reality he's an objective man who understands that I am trustworthy and it's not even so much that I'm pursuing the time-sharing being a certain thing it's that I'm pursuing our children being able to have a nuclear family with a mother and a father in the house abusive to one another in front of them and he knows that what I'm doing is going to give them stability through a hard time and he knows that what I'm doing gives us a chance of being a family together he sees I'm not sure that it is Honorable and then he looks at your behavior and he can see that it's the opposite that it's tearing us apart that it's abusing that is not leading to us ever being able to be together again but it's just gaining me to other people that it's keeping me in the cycle of having to feel ashamed for doing what I know is best it's an objective person who you should listen to and not try to age manipulate his advice by Framing it as though his goal is to take your kids away from you that's how you manipulate his advice you make him look bad to other people I call that devaluation wage you go to a third party and you tell them see a McDonald is telling me that I should give my kids up to you completely when you know out of all the people on this entire planet yep you're not going to find anybody who is more Pro father involvement than see a MacDonald T invest so much of his life in pouring into young men the importance of Father involvement he buys case he buys case loads of books that explain the importance of Father involvement just a hand out to people who happen to come by his house it's crazy manipulative to take a man like that and frame him as trying to take your children away from you as an excuse to not have to follow his God advice and so you say well he doesn't want to interface with me anymore you just did in this conversation you just told
speaker 1: me okay what am I said that I what he told me to do is the let you choose right
speaker 2: because I'm trustworthy and because that's an honorable thing to do for a wife he's teaching you by his example and his counsel how you treat your wife when she's behaving honorably so that you can be a family who lives together Under One Roof you know that's what he's trying to do
speaker 1: hey hi what what did you say hi to you Maddox mhm no
speaker 2: no what I'm getting at is that there are people you could live with if you were behaving in pro-social ways
speaker 1: huh I don't know what what what what you don't know
speaker 2: well I mean I'll be like the idea is to live with me right
speaker 1: Monday
speaker 2: but these behaviors that you're doing today make that really really clearly not a safe possibility and then next down the street what know that's an objective
speaker 1: reality okay
speaker 2: and that's Universal by the way and any any feeling you have to the contrary this what's called entitlement which is a real problem hold on hold on
speaker 1: all right sorry about that but also my parents house like they have
speaker 2: beds and again I think the barrier is human tality is not wanting other people to see your behavior evidently framed in the guise of thinking we should have
speaker 1: privacy he might Behavior may have been what anyone
speaker 2: what you said I don't either I know but you said that you shouldn't live at my parents house because you should have
speaker 1: privacy what what I haven't been invited to stay at your parents house I haven't seen the idea
speaker 2: I know but that was literally the first thing that I asked you to do
speaker 1: you
speaker 2: wrote it off out of hand sorry I mean it's and and that's the thing you said you were trying to divorce me like that meant that we're like automatically adversaries which to me speaks to you having some delusions of
speaker 1: persecution like
speaker 2: it's obvious to everybody who sees me and knows me that I'm doing everything I can to have a healthy family and you think that you're just entitled to like keep on keep on keep on keep on that's right it like the arguing is pointless completely pointless
speaker 1: I would like get if we did last arguing I think it's like if I did was arguing because that would give you more power and control over me people are doing
speaker 2: I know but the things I'm arguing your truth and the things you're arguing or falsehoods not to shift the blame
speaker 1: onto me where I can live what figure out
speaker 2: I know and I'm saying but that's dependent on your willingness to have accountability to friends and family who actually walkway just
speaker 1: day-to-day what what what and what not that what
speaker 2: well that's I'm giving you example after example after example after example of times that people we know if seen you do really destructive abusive things and in 0 of those cases are you willing to heed what they're asking you to do or what they're telling you about your
speaker 1: behaviors telling me anything about my behavior there
speaker 2: it's not true when somebody says you need to figure out a way to try to get off work at 4:30 you're not heating that when somebody says your wife didn't eat any food for a week straight now you're trying to blame her for the fact that you didn't notice try to not do that try to just say I'm sorry you turn right around and Shifting the blame onto me for you not noticing like people are able to tell you real specific behaviors that are harmful and you're bucking that objective perspective with everything you have and there's way way way too many hours in the week to think that you're going to fit all of those interactions all of those destructive interactions into a one hour session with a therapist so what I'm saying is like if you were behaving in pro-social ways and you were interacting reasonably and I you were in reality with the rest of us not denying actual facts about words that you spoke with the 5 minutes ago that six people all heard then going to a therapist once a week would make sucks because we would have marital
speaker 1: problems
speaker 2: but you have to have an objective reality to have anything to discuss during that one that recession and we are lacking in faith active reality without objective reality have nothing to talk about so that's not a problem that's a reality
speaker 1: problem I'll take it
speaker 2: buddy I know but what I'm what I'm talking about is you being willing to hear things from other people and accept them and he'd them that's the only possible
speaker 1: huh the what
speaker 2: I'm saying that's the only path forward real people who are really a part of our lives and really loved us and really understand what's happening and really see us in our day-to-day you can say I'm not going to pick and choose which parts of their advice I'm going to follow so I can say look I'm doing it and which parts I'm going to completely ignore because I don't want to suck it I'm not going to take their advice and then twist it around on them to say that they're trying to take my children away from me so that you can be their victim I'm not going to tell them that they're remembering wrong when they tell me something that they just saw and heard their own eyes and ears I'm going to actually Heat their accountability and thank God for it even if it feels wrong to me even if it feels dangerous
speaker 1: to me do outside outside don't do it outside okay so okay you understand what I'm talking about right it sounds like you want me to follow blindly a group of people that's not always on the same page and I
speaker 2: just no no no no nooo song
speaker 1: thing that the device inside and that that was extremely your detriment and I did it right
speaker 2: it's so I'm assuming actually when they said if you could advise and they are all in sync with one another you follow that you don't say who now I'm going to go to each one of them individually and get their opinion about how much time sharing I could cuz I don't like what the first one told me and I want to put them against each other haha they're all trying to see my wife let me get something that's worse than accusing your wife and really more obvious divorcing I'm going to go to each one of them and see what they say about biblical basis of course because that's really theologically complicated and I'm going to use it to make them look stupid and I'm saying don't do those things they've given you a lot of good advice and you don't need manipulate against them like that if you had followed everything every one of them had told you and even if you switched from doing what one of them said one day to the next one said a different day or if you said to them that's really different from what she told me yesterday do you have time in your schedule that you me and Matt could get together to get on the same page about this that would be healthy that would be pro-social that would be submitting to accountability that would be responsible that would be living in reality that would be healthy they don't think that you would have run into any problems with that so
speaker 1: far can do that oh that what problems but I can do that what that's great I can do
speaker 2: that would you be willing to go as far as not sending me messages until CA read them I don't know whether he wants to do that would you be willing I'm trying to find out if you're a trustworthy person who's not going to get in to get me back and to check your clutches and then make up all these excuses I didn't mean I was going to do that would you be willing
speaker 1: in SA I don't think he's going to want to do that but yes
speaker 2: it's not what I'm talking about. And I'm talking about your willingness what level of submission you're open
speaker 1: to sure
speaker 2: would you be willing for to share your location with me or other people
speaker 1: yeah huh so me if we're going to have a relationship yes or no
speaker 2: would you be willing to have to get your spending approved by today so
speaker 1: I'm sorry buddy
speaker 2: it's okay right now you said knowing that
speaker 1: this is in our life
speaker 2: I know but see a has proven himself to be a good Steward of the resources that God and trust him and you've proven that you've got a problem I mean a real problem okay I mean when you represent the staff there that you're not an addict because you're
speaker 1: getting like a
speaker 2: clean urine screen or whatever you absolutely have a spending addiction and it's absolutely destructive to your Children's Welfare and you're telling me that you're not open to
speaker 1: accountability that's what it takes in our family back I'll be anything I guess
speaker 2: I mean yeah absolutely I mean I'm talking about like rock bottom of what it takes at this point that's that's not the full extent of it by any means
speaker 1: figuring out where I'm going to
speaker 2: live like I'm saying that's what it takes like we like need to understand if you're just saying what you have to say to get a place to live or if you're serious about recognizing that you've been you've been engaging in extremely extremely destructive Behavior and you need to be accountable to other people who see those behaviors especially I mean regardless whether you see them and you're pretending that they're not there because you don't like to come face-to-face with your failures or whether you don't see them at all oh on that
speaker 1: don't know how I don't know how so like that
speaker 2: maybe the batteries sir maybe new batteries okay okay are you willing to work we're CA tells you to
speaker 1: work oh I'm
speaker 2: eighteen if it's the answer you
speaker 1: want I don't know if it's a reasonable thing to ask me to do yeah
speaker 2: but reasonable for you doesn't always match what is reasonable for
speaker 1: my life I get the
speaker 2: right that's what we're trying to figure out if that if that's what this is about is that this is all your life and you're entitled to a woman who serves you unconditionally no matter how much you abuse sir that's the question at hand here that okay well it's not my life Dustin my life is not mine. I was never under any illusion that this is my life I'm living
speaker 1: Hayes
speaker 2: telling you no it's it's Christ's Dustin it's Christ and so far so far I've lived for Christ by submitting to your every whim even when it was to destroy your children and to milk us out of everything that we have until we're completely dry
speaker 1: I don't know where you're getting that but I don't understand what that has to do with ye
speaker 2: because you have absolutely completely proven yourself to be untrustworthy of knowing what is irrational decision and what is not a holy and fully dead and it's going to take a long long long long time if you having a control in place for your behavior to not be destructive to your family because you rationalize whatever you want them to get what you want and do whatever you want so that you can feel good about yourself no matter what and so the the backstop can't be Dustin's own wisdom or Dustin's own judgment that's that's no backstop at all yeah see this is why God and then maybe a day comes where you Flex those muscles long enough and made good decisions long enough and you can just do it automatically because you formed the right habits month but at this point the habits are bad
speaker 1: I need a bigger Phillips head like the one from the closet
speaker 2: you understand like his
speaker 1: whatever I think that it's
speaker 2: a for example you know these are theoretical questions to test your seriousness about laying down your own wisdom which and admitting that your own wisdom can be faulty and being willing to hear people around you who are telling you the truth healthy what
speaker 1: yeah my own wisdom can be
speaker 2: faulty right but if you're willing to put yourself back in a situation where you once again have all the power and all the control over me and everything is still advised that it's going to be run through the filter of whether it suits what Dustin wants to do whether Dustin thinks it's rational or not
speaker 1: and
speaker 2: then we're back to where we
speaker 1: started yep yes I think we spoke strip
speaker 2: that I'm
speaker 1: sorry
speaker 2: I think we stripped the Phillips head but I don't know how to get the volume back on
speaker 1: this sorry. Like
speaker 2: you'd be able to need an even bigger one
speaker 1: I don't know
speaker 2: I'm sorry buddy I can't do it don't you go put that back in the closet okay sorry
speaker 1: sorry
speaker 2: yep you mean this part I don't know either sorry you mean take that out
speaker 1: like that sorry
speaker 2: like can you imagine what your life would be like right now if for the last six months you had done whatever CA said to do you can't you can't go there in your brain
speaker 1: Toyota best what no I don't know what it would be like I know that I tried to do what he asked me for an extended period of time and he
speaker 2: determines your resignation to American classic I don't understand how you can say that. And I can't even I mean if you could even give me a date range of when you thought that you were doing that I could probably tell you something that you did that was way way way way outside of his Council on at least half of the day than any get a date
speaker 1: range so what I mean
speaker 2: which month are you are you thinking that you took his advice
speaker 1: I don't know whenever I was staying
speaker 2: there yeah so he was telling you don't fight with your wife over the children and you were shaming me for getting two weekends in a row he was saying don't fight with your wife about the children and you were filing court documents that said that I put my wants above my children's needs those are the actions that are the reason that we're not together she would never do that to Jani
speaker 1: and
speaker 2: that's why he doesn't have to worry about somebody divorcing
speaker 1: him have to go figure out where I'm going to yeah and on the phone are you sorry. About what historical stuff oh gosh I need to go find a house
speaker 2: cuz I know but it's a question of can you live with other adults and a pro-social
speaker 1: what the only person who thinks that I can't and I don't need to argue with you about how to change your mind you're
speaker 2: lying to me when you're lying to me when you tell me that I'm the only person who thinks you can't wage lie
speaker 1: you're lying but I know of that things I can't you're lying even if you're lose I still need to find a place to Loop too
speaker 2: but you're lying to me you're lying to me I don't deserve to be home like that I know that everybody who knows us know that you shouldn't be in my house with
speaker 1: me I didn't see that I need to move in with you I need to find no but you deliver that you
speaker 2: just said that you're the you said Aaron you're the only person who thinks this way way and that's not true
speaker 1: I'm the only person who thinks that I can't live in a house with people that's not true the only person that I know of that thinks that but even if it is true I need to find a house to live in don't I know the
speaker 2: key to that is thinking about your behaviors that stop you from living with other adults because if the behavior has changed then you would have no problem if you could just live with other adults I think that's the key for you
speaker 1: Dustin by
speaker 2: your urine sample didn't show that you lie about what other people in a group setting saw with their own eyes and heard with their own ears
speaker 1: have you ever heard of Brittany Brown what never heard of Brittany Brown no meeting here but old daring greatly the courage to be vulnerable transforms The Way We Live Love and live she gave a TED talk about being vulnerable when she says is the Cradle of being honest and of love and the blood cells are dead yeah
speaker 2: are you trying to kill me after making me more vulnerable because they feel like it's been a little too vulnerable
speaker 1: I'm reading a book about being vulnerable because of the cradle of love and life and truthfulness and it's got nothing to do with money I'm doing for me too be more real and authentic with
speaker 2: you but what about CA
speaker 1: with everybody
speaker 2: can you be vulnerable enough to save that you made him look bad by telling people that he said to he said to give up your
speaker 1: children I mean if I could remember seeing that I would they thought I said that but as far as I know represented damages that he told me to like you did they yeah
speaker 2: and when you told Neil that was that in the context of Aaron is completely trustworthy to never withhold my children from me any more than it is in their best interest
speaker 1: and I have full faith and asking to see her children and you were ignoring my tax or sleeping that you didn't want me to see them other than every other
speaker 2: weekend I told you 24 hours a day 7 days a week unlimited access right and when you said you wanted them
speaker 1: for either ignore me or dead
speaker 2: yeah but I said that when you said you wanted them for a whole week and I was supposed to take them from you from 6:30 a.m. until 5 p.m. not my fault but that's not home school then I don't know that when they were already in public school but it's not my fault that it's not in our best interest to rip them away from their home at 5:00 and bring them back to their home at 6:30 a.m. seven days in a row out of nowhere that's not my fault I didn't write the laws of nature and attachment for that to be destabilizing to them psychologically that's not my fault that doesn't show that I'm not willing to let you have time with your children if you were taking a whole week off of work you were going on a road trip with them I wouldn't have stopped, but you were wanting an arrangement that was a lot of shuffling back and forth during a time when that wasn't set that that was going to be in stone how the rest of their life was going to be so it's kind of pissed areas and kind of confusing putting him in that tug-of-war especially when you were being as creepy during drop-offs and pick-ups as you were being at that time that would have been really really confusing for children that young that would have been really
speaker 1: convenient for them so they're giving them a hug goodbye as
speaker 2: creepy when you're bringing their mom chocolates and saying I'm sorry Mommy why won't you talk
speaker 1: with me why won't you talk with me and just give you
speaker 2: chocolate I'm I'm giving different examples of different things you did at different times that over the course of many weeks would give the children the distinct impression that their father is as a remorseful as I get out and there's never was a man in the history of the world who was as willing to love and serve his wife while actively doing things that were really destructive to me that I had no way of telling the children about because it's not right to tell children the truth about their father when their fathers such as life they had no way of knowing why I was being pulled towards you and that was not fair to them to have to see what you were asking them to witness and it's not fair to them to get torn back and forth between two households on a daily basis during a destabilizing time that's not my fault and it doesn't change the fact that everybody including CA including me including you knew that I was completely capable of doing whatever was in my children's best interests and making whatever sacrifice his personal necessary and it wasn't withholding them from you I wasn't and the thing about the second and fourth weekend that was absurd that was absurd like you knew I didn't come up with that on my
speaker 1: own I did not come huh I did not come up with it
speaker 2: I know I'm just saying the reason that that's a good system and the reason that
speaker 1: it's not a good system
speaker 2: experts who have been studying this for forty years put pen-to-paper and determine based on thousands of families past experiences both good and horrific that it's helpful to be able to look at a calendar three years down the road and know whether a given weekend is Mommy week after daddy weekend it really does a lot to avoid confusion about somebody saying oops I suck vacation because I thought it was my weekend can we switch
speaker 1: it's easy
speaker 2: it's either a second and for the weekend or it's not but it wasn't my idea and I didn't even think it through that
speaker 1: much I can't do this anymore I got to sign the house to live in okay
speaker 2: but I'm saying I think that you could live with themselves if you weren't behaving in a way that's so destructive to see a
speaker 1: I don't know what you're talking about and
speaker 2: I to try to frame him as wanting you to not be in their children's lives when all he was doing was giving you canceled
speaker 1: that we wanting me to in their children's lives I said he told me to like right
speaker 2: but you were letting people believe that letting me choose was somehow going to result in you never getting to see your kids except for the second and fourth weekend of every month that you were getting cut out of them recall and know in reality letting your wife choose would result in you living in the same house as your wife that's what I was aiming for that's what I was aiming for was an end to the madness an end to the blaming claiming and the public embarrassment in the
speaker 1: workplace wasn't working
speaker 2: the end because what you were doing what you were doing you were continuing to go to your workplace and defend me know you were telling people that I was trying to run you over with my car Dustin you were telling people that I was trying to take your children away from you you were telling people that I was trying to cut you out of your children's lives that's the reason it wasn't working out between us he was giving you advice that if actually followed what a resulted in you living with me and you were distorting it to your own ends to get people to pity you
speaker 1: and they get anybody to pity me and I was trying to figure out what to do. You can argue about this with other therapists I can't
speaker 2: well you're asking me I don't think that it's a good idea for you to live alone you're suicidal you make terrible spending decisions you make terrible communication decisions you make terrible relational decisions and you need people around you who you're going to choose to trust even when what they say doesn't match or judgment and if you don't want to live with the men except for you that's fine and if you don't want to live with the McDonald's that's fine and you don't want to live with my
speaker 1: parents and I'm not invited at your parents
speaker 2: home because you're not willing to actually be accountable to other people my mom says I need to take picture of what's in that box the only appropriate response is okay you can't abuse people you can't do that
speaker 1: I'm sorry I didn't tell her
speaker 2: okay it's not just that though you understand this is a lifelong pattern of you trying to control people it's not see a fault that he had to ask you to leave is that my mom's fault that she's not comfortable around you you know what I mean
speaker 1: oh it don't owe me anything any
speaker 2: is I know but they love you they love you they love you there are people who really truly love you and will support you but not support you in abusing your family and and and honestly I think it's asking a little bit much to have them stick out their necks to be defamed like you have to behave in a way that makes it safe for people to interact with you and no it's not going to come back to bite them
speaker 1: okay if you understand I need to go find somewhere to live
speaker 2: like yeah and you understand what I'm saying it should be I think it should be with other
speaker 1: people don't have anywhere to live with other people I mean to well who I'll have you tried nobody
speaker 2: and what changes are you willing to make to be a person who can be lived with
speaker 1: I don't know what changes like need to make
speaker 2: I mean I just gave you a lot of examples I don't
speaker 1: say anything people I don't think I'm defaming somebody by telling them something that happened it's not defaming them it's
speaker 2: when you're spinning that when you're spending your wife is keeping your children from you pretty defamatory to say that your wife is keeping your children from you and we'll only that's not true Dustin it's not my fault that you had to work as much as you had to work but I didn't check that
speaker 1: placing that leasing that huh I'll be seeing that it's your fault that I was working the only reason I offered for you to watch the children as I thought that you would like to do that I also offered to get them after care and you said that we had to do your idea of the schedule for it repeatedly may
speaker 2: I know but you you were asking for things that damage them you weren't taking time off of work to spend time with your children you're asking them to
speaker 1: go to like to spend it with the
speaker 2: choice to go through
speaker 1: hell I don't think that they would characterize their time with me as being held I think we have
speaker 2: no but if every night if every night they were having to drive all the way to Fernandina and then be with me for an hour before I drive them to school and then have me bring them home to do their homework with them and then get their backpacks together to go have dinner with you I'm saying that is a lot of shuffling for a little little people we're not talking about a
speaker 1: twelve-year-old here that last part
speaker 2: again we're not talking about a twelve-year-old here okay but it's not fair to characterize the fact that I'm not going along with an insane plan like that and deal with holding your children
speaker 1: from you when you say it's an insane plan if you divorced me that's the most likely scenario of what they would give us absolutely you having you're not obligated to take care of children during my time but like I said I would I was only offering that cuz I thought you would like it if you don't like it don't expect you to do anything for
speaker 2: me and I understand but you're looking at time with the children as being like money like it's some kind of prize to be won let's let's see if we can split them fifty-fifty and that's fruit that's crazy I know but you understand that for me having the children with me all the time is not the same for me getting 100% of our money like there's major major major major beyond what you can possibly comprehend as hard as you try to imagine it through our major sacrifices caring for children by yourself for one week you have never ever ever sacrificed your will to do what you feel like doing when you feel like doing it for seven days straight the way that you would have to do if you had children for 7 days straight I'm not saying that you couldn't or wouldn't I'm seeing I'm saying that you're I'm saying that your view of time with children as being a prize to be won as being like a net-positive any minute you can check with them the person who has time with them is winning and the person who's not with them is losing that's kind of sick
speaker 1: I don't know if it's not understand your characterization of it it's not a prize or my children so I
speaker 2: know but having time with them is not
speaker 1: all suck ass with you I know I would like our family to be together
speaker 2: and exactly what makes
speaker 1: us together
speaker 2: exactly that's what makes us totally
speaker 1: understand why we're talking about this
speaker 2: because you know that I'm acting honorably in their best interest I'm not doing something that is destabilizing for them I'm not doing something that is psychologically damaging to them I'm not making them grow up fatherless I'm not withholding them I'm loving them and sacrificing for them and caring for them in every way I can and you see that and everybody else sees it but you want to character it rise it as them doing something bad to
speaker 1: you I don't understand what we're talking about I I need to find a house to live
speaker 2: at I know so if you were living with C A and C A tells you to do something you shouldn't use that to make people feel bad for you
speaker 1: you
speaker 2: should just man up and do it because you know that he has good judgment and it's going to lead to us being a nuclear family together again not pick and choose things that you want to follow and things that you don't want to follow and then say he doesn't think I'd being genuine enough if he says letter and pick the time-sharing schedule and Aaron says do you want to have them the 2nd fourth weekend in December or do you want to have them after school on Friday before Christmas all the way until the 26 it's up to you and you keep flipping it around on me and saying I'll take one hundred percent of the time I am offered that's manipulative if I feel I mean you think I'm arguing but in this conversation you're slipping in and out so much of speaking in a coherent way that sounds like you actually understand dead you did wrong I can behave differently. Thursday
speaker 1: hey I just I can't have this conversation anymore right now okay
speaker 2: do you think there's a good living room for you
speaker 1: know I think well I don't I don't really know what to think of people here wouldn't think that that's a really bad idea and basically I got to get going I don't know like right now I feel like I'm going to end up going to Maryland cuz I got nowhere to live
speaker 2: basically why do you feel that way why
speaker 1: do I feel what way
speaker 2: Lake why I'm
speaker 1: going to be leaving here really soon
speaker 2: but you could come to this house
speaker 1: living you don't want me to come to my house but you can the
speaker 2: fact that I would leave if you came doesn't change that you're not homeless
speaker 1: okay well I'm not going to come there cuz you don't want me
speaker 2: there well if you're going to pick somebody to live with and you know that that means that you're going to be in close proximity to them that note means that you know that you're going to be able to hear their perspectives on a daily basis what voices do you want to expose yourself to engine really sick that your therapist would think that it's a great idea for you to be in close proximity to somebody who's going to spend every day trying to defame your wife and convince you to manipulate your wife convinced you to fight over your children and convince you to try to get as much money as you can get out of her is that what your therapist or thinking is a healthy environment for you
speaker 1: know I mean I was hoping we spend this afternoon coming up with ideas for me to have somewhere to live
speaker 2: and I think a good idea is to live with people who have always given you good good
speaker 1: counsel well and who would continue to do so I don't think that they've always given me Good Counsel and they don't think that my therapist would support it and I don't think that is likely to be out further than just can't argue about it right now I need to actually find somewhere to
speaker 2: go I think that's what you should pursue with your whole heart getting getting Ted to call McDonald's
speaker 1: why would you call the
speaker 2: McDonald's evidently he doesn't trust them but it sounds like you feel like you need Ted's approval to live with them in Texas the guy who says that other people should trust you enough to be willing to interface with you with a therapist
speaker 1: I got to go let me
speaker 2: are you going to pursue
speaker 1: that I'll mention it and he will Spike Lee didn't know but can
speaker 2: he name anything that they've ever told you that was poor counsel
speaker 1: hello I don't think he I don't think that that's a fairly another then I think they think that having members of our church and involved in our lives while we're in this crisis is a terrible idea you know not something that's not familiar to them they seen that hundreds of
speaker 2: times Dustin there's no way they've seen this
speaker 1: they
speaker 2: think we're having a marital
speaker 1: problem okay I really got to go I'm sorry you have a chance to talk with any of them and help me that's all I know to do
speaker 2: do you think they would approve you going to
speaker 1: Maryland I don't think that they think it's a good idea I mean when I say approved or when you recognize that I'm an adult they can make my own decisions but I do I think he thinks that's a good idea to know
speaker 2: well for whatever reason they don't seem to want to talk to me so
speaker 1: cuz they're not marriage counseling and their clients
speaker 2: right but they're missing the fact that we're not having they're missing the fact that we're not having marital problems but doesn't matter it is because they're able to put me on the back burner say oh oh she's just a marital problem that doesn't all have to get a marriage therapist for and not looking at mother like what I you know what I really am is I'm a urine screen Dustin I'm the urine stream you've got one of those before you been there for three weeks and you got one of those more than one time
speaker 1: because
speaker 2: whatever marriage counselor no
speaker 1: yeah okay
speaker 2: no just just don't go where she is no a marriage counselor with me for if we had marital problems no honey it's a counselor know we're talking about directly anything else recognizing the difference between when you see reality and when somehow your memory is completely different than the way things happen in real
speaker 1: life well consistently brought them in and they
speaker 2: don't and they think it's a marital problems I think it's all coming for me and these people who are alliance with me in our marital problems and aren't objective enough money too close to the
speaker 1: situation well I don't know that is what they think that it is I
speaker 2: think I have like a thirty-day yeah and you were needed the thirties before you guys
speaker 1: concerning my I have literally been here concerned expressing concern about my projections and exploring if I have them wrong or not and I think completely repeatedly told them that I've got listed trust in you and your judgment I don't know I've said it so many times that they think I'm not saying it so
speaker 2: exactly exactly and presenting as co-dependent your wife has abused you know thinking that you have mental problems by telling you that your memory is faulty and it has got to you so much that you have p p s e and you're suicidal because of this woman they're not looking at me like you're in screen they're not looking at me like an objective sample that they can compare your claims to they're assuming that we have marital problems and we need objective canceling because we're both so not objective and that's why
speaker 1: I'm that's true of anybody quite honestly they
speaker 2: it is absolutely is Ted told me that I mean they told me that you need somebody who's not so close to the
speaker 1: situation so I agree with him and then just don't know the super comfortable getting canceled like not what we need
speaker 2: and I'm saying without the real life checks and balances it's very predatory for you to take me into a therapist Drew I want them
speaker 1: balanced I mean huh I
speaker 2: want checks and
speaker 1: balances do you believe that I really care about you
speaker 2: like yeah I just think that in that you're not like you're not thinking about the times that you physically assaulted me and you're not thinking about the way that that has shaped my behavior towards you and you're not thinking about the fact that this woman who you think is such a wonderful servant to you might only be behaving in a way that is so pleasurable for you and so good for your ego because she has been manipulated in the being scared to behave in any way that's going to draw your disdain because you treat her with such contempt these behaviors that you love so much are just the fabrication of how you've trained are I don't think you love the real me I don't think you love a me who has her own will outside of what she's Badger to do with your bullying I do thank you love how malleable I am and how easy it is to abuse excuse me for your own purposes
speaker 1: I love
speaker 2: you. I know but I think she loved that I think you love having a woman who asks about the credit card balance and you can shame and to not not asking ever again
speaker 1: I
speaker 2: think you love a woman who is telling you that she has children to care for and it's hard to find a new tenant for a rental property and you convince her that you're such a wonderful provider and you're such a hard worker that you don't have time for that and she takes up the slack by doing it even if it harms the children schedules just every last bit of it is so dang convenient for you you love it all right
speaker 1: sorry that I took advantage of your strength
speaker 2: it's it's not that it's that you emotionally manipulated me into doing those things that you you you heaped heavy scorn and disdain and contempt and sneering and meanness on me any time you saw me starting to suggest that we do suck out of line then what was convenient for you we're talking about really heavy really dark manipulation can I don't think anybody was that disturbed by you working long hours I think they were disturbed by the things that you were willing to say to keep complete control over your work schedule I don't think anyone was that Disturbed that you had to close of a relationship with Julie I think people were disturbed by the things that you were willing to do and say in front of a wife to maintain the power and control to continue doing whatever you want in your personal relationships with other women the things that you do and say to maintain power and control are sickening like what what
speaker 1: what things
speaker 2: think when he says why would you go to Cleo's you say because it's half a mile from my work site and we had a meeting to have and I have to eat and I do things that are National not things that are irrational would be irrational for me to drive to another place just because my wife arbitrarily chose One restaurant that I'm not allowed to go to that freaks people out Dustin it feels normal to you because you've been doing it for fifteen years but a person hearing that just freaked out that you would flip the whole thing around on me to make me look like I'm trying to control
speaker 1: what Emily from my class okay.
speaker 2: All right sorry
speaker 1: hi