speaker 1:  hello Hey Mami I talk to Mommy you didn't yeah that's good good when was that
speaker 2: around 5:00
speaker 1: he called her she told you she called me Mexico. I think she leaves here a lot earlier than that how did it again tell me about it
speaker 2: I mean I'm sure she's already told you all of it seems like you've seen her a lot and she was
speaker 1: like huh no I'm sorry this morning and I probably won't see her
speaker 2: no no no I mean everything that she told me is probably will tell you well
speaker 1: okay
speaker 2: she you know what I mean she probably summarize for me in 10 minutes like you've had cumulative hour okay
speaker 1: did you tell her anything
speaker 2: well no because you know she said she was she was only going to talk about I mean like I you know I asked her like you know Dustin was trying to be in on this decision making not really seem
speaker 1: like you know
speaker 2: something that I can weigh in on without crossing a personal boundary and she was like oh yeah she's like even with what I do like I can't tell people what to put in their bodies that's nice it's got to be there so she's like yeah you definitely did the right thing there leaving it to him and I told her that I did try to weigh in about alcohol and she said
speaker 1: you
speaker 2: know basically that having a drink was not going to hurt anything just cuz you're on
speaker 1: antidepressants
speaker 2: and she said if any you know if anything like if you had too much to drink it would like cancel it out would be her concern and I said that that I've always you know that's another boundary I've always wanted to not cross is like dictating what you can drink and not and I don't want to in the future ever be tempted to do that but the but the drinking had gotten pretty worrisome over the last four or five months and she said oh that makes perfect sense she said this will alleviate that
speaker 1: need
speaker 2: and then she tried to oh I was like well thank you I really appreciate it goodbye and she goes oh there's just one thing that I wanted to tell you and she's like I am familiar with the set free by the Sea and I don't have a problem with their Ministry and I've even referred people there but it's for like hardcore drug addicts and dusted doesn't fit that profile in anyway and the you know we're at a point now where inpatient could just be like dust and avoiding having to get back to real life and that in and of itself is not the best thing for Thursday depression the best thing for Dustin is to interface with work and getting out of the house and doing things and outpatient can help him process how to do
speaker 1: that well that's what you told me too
speaker 2: and I was like my son needs me are you available to talk anymore if I call back and she's like actually no I'm leaving you'll have to age refer any Aftercare questions too is that
speaker 1: Colby yeah
speaker 2: or Ted oh oh oh I did actually before I said my son needs me I did say yes but feel like we've been acting like the secondary conditions but didn't even exist when I first called honey like in September you know about Dustin's problems we were even Ted said six months I wouldn't even you know scratch the surface to get into like the thought patterns that might be causing some of the group behaviors she was like she was basically like yeah it's obviously we're not going to ever claim to completely cure somebody in 30 days or just you know putting you on the right path so problem is she has no idea she has like zero idea
speaker 1: maybe a lot
speaker 2: of like what you're what your route problems are what your what your primary condition is like she actually thinks that you're just having like a depressive flare up because of the
speaker 1: situation talk to companies were talking to you what
speaker 2: oh so I called dr. crops office
speaker 1: and
speaker 2: she transferred me to a young woman a very young woman and the young woman said no I think that doctor crop actually has everything he needs but I am you know available to make some notes for them if there's anything anything that you want to tell
speaker 1: us
speaker 2: and it was like yeah I was like well I'm kind of gun shy about doing that because you know I don't want it to appear that I'm trying to frame him for anything and I was kind of hoping more for em you know questions that would you know let me know what information is most helpful but you know and I kind of just rambled like a ton and she has she was typing and going okay I'm making notes and that makes sense you know I see I'll definitely get this to dr. crop and maybe you'll have some follow-up for you and the way out in like you know if it if it's easier for him you know for me to like type up responses to some questions I can email stuff to him and give her my email address and then asked me that I'm not sure if he realizes about kind of how time-sensitive this is testing needing to check out but his Clinic you know kind of
speaker 1: being
speaker 2: worried and I don't know I mean I don't know what you're going to get out of that at this
speaker 1: point any if I have some primary condition like you're saying this type of testing uncovers
speaker 2: that right I'm
speaker 1: just about any extremely well-educated people in the fields that it is extremely reliable
speaker 2: who are you talking about
speaker 1: professors and doctors
speaker 2: Professor
speaker 1: who Siri items came here. Seems to be the director here over everything and now she's Professor yeah super super sharp lady said that she first got into psychology she didn't believe in those tests and it was only after she did a research a doctorate and everything that she came to realize that they really work but like doing that make
speaker 2: up a hundred percent assurance
speaker 1: and whatever you get back from
speaker 2: that right but I'm saying like what difference does
speaker 1: that make
speaker 2: like if it comes back and it says that you have a disorder and I say it's creepy for you to stock me down the hallway and asked what man was in our kitchen that's one thing or if it comes back and it says there's absolutely nothing wrong with you and you're perfectly psychologically healthy and you have a wife who says it's creepy to stalk her down a hallway and after who that man was in the kitchen what difference at that point does it
speaker 1: make
speaker 2: you just have a behavior that needs to change right
speaker 1: you know
speaker 2: so I'm not like other than like I
speaker 1: need to know if I have something wrong with me that makes me do wrong things to you and if they do if it's fixable
speaker 2: yeah but either way like the what you learn is don't stock your wife down a hallway like there's an element of behaviorism to changing behaviors that are harmful regardless of pathology or not pathology why don't you just dismiss in this conversation all the work that I've
speaker 1: done here on the basis of the professionals supposedly not having any
speaker 2: idea dead well my understanding was that thing okay my understanding was that Megan was there to medicate you because because right now your emotion are at levels that you're not able to cope
speaker 1: with I mean she didn't take some medicine but she's also in charge of diagnosing me with any psychological
speaker 2: problems and
speaker 1: his extremely intelligent and went out of her way to talk with me a lot of this so hm I have a lot of faith in her professionalism I know she's only telling you oh this is why I've diagnosed him with but she's still like me but that don't have anything that would be considered an access to diagnosis like she doesn't think that may I have any of the traits of any of these disorders that are some stuff like that I have so
speaker 2: what do you think cuz you've actually like been present when you were building your trailer and you were actually present when you were going to flight school or you were actually resident when you were complaining that I don't for play it enough and you were actually present when you couldn't clean up your office and you actually Pleasant all the times it took you weeks to file your taxes and you were actually present when you got angry that off Sean
speaker 1: on Facebook you
speaker 2: know I'm not saying that I'm just saying that you have a full picture what your lifestyle thing
speaker 1: things that I would do differently than other things speak to an axis and that's I'm not understand what you're getting at as far as what you think they're not
speaker 2: me I'm saying Megan wouldn't know any of that any of it none
speaker 1: I know that
speaker 2: hey and I'm saying like you're honest like self assessment
speaker 1: and
speaker 2: I'm also saying that Megan went way out of her way to make sure that we didn't get to dialogue about
speaker 1: that well I think she's perceiving that's not her primary
speaker 2: role right so I'm just saying if you're on your end you're putting a lot of faith in she knew she she definitely is professional she's definitely considered a full weight and she's so smart she would have seen it there's no way she would have missed it also she's not willing to speak with anybody about it except for me
speaker 1: and you don't understand how things work here she's part of a team that follows me around she's spoken with my therapist she speaks with that
speaker 2: right I'm just saying you're you're living you're living in a bubble and you're putting a lot of faith in people who are seeing a you that I think is amazing and perfect and wonderful and charming and smart and kind and like I'm not I wouldn't claim anything different about the behaviors that you've shown at Honey Lake but when you take the story about 10 to 3 and then you change it to you change it to they were mad that I thought that she should talk to me about my children's education and they told me to leave and I left and she says that's abusive like okay that's completely know you didn't leave the reason that we're still telling the story is because of the fact that you didn't leave I did leave a you know not when you were first half-assed there were there were all kinds of
speaker 1: extenders with you about
speaker 2: that I know I know
speaker 1: and I desperate need a fact finding housing for
speaker 2: myself I know others
speaker 1: called me two times since we've been on the phone I just I can't go into this other stuff right now okay I wish I could wish I had unlimited time to talk with
speaker 2: you I think that I think that that's not something we should ever talk about Dustin I think when I say that you didn't leave when you were asked to leave then you say
speaker 1: oh okay I will see
speaker 2: somebody's giving you information so you take information and then you know the information it's good information there are multiple Witnesses so so my point is not that you need to worry about whether Megan's got the right diagnosis or whether it's got all the information my point is that you should feel the same sense of urgency to change the behaviors even if you don't get a diagnosis that makes you think Oh Aaron was right all along so what do you thinking about where you want to live
speaker 1: I don't know I bring us again
speaker 2: Alabama's like mush
speaker 1: again oh okay do you think speaks to a magazine saying I think I'm on the cusp of being permanently institutionalized if I don't get out of hearing range
speaker 2: yeah but Megan's also same things like along those lines like I think she said something about like you don't start tapering until you're on your medication till you're symptom-free and then she goes and buy symptom-free I don't remember what she said I think she said stable environment stable schedule and then we'll back up what do you mean stable schedule and she was describing like predictable lifetime of going to bed and getting a predictable you know time of going to work and not just like staying home all day and
speaker 1: you
speaker 2: know like a pattern of doing things I think is what she was describing but then she was like kind of launching into a like you know the the worst thing is to just stay at home all day like that's you know that's a big concern or that's a you knows you know like obviously we were we have the opposite like Dustin does it create which is like oh I would rather somebody be working too much and have to taper off then not be doing anything but that's like a red flag of like somebody has no concept your actual pathological workaholism and how toxic and how entrenched and how life long it is well I know I know but that's somebody who thinks when I say like you say workaholism you think that you're a hard worker she's not perceiving your workaholism on the level it's on she's not she doesn't know about you tiling at 3:00 in the morning she doesn't know about you doing Fort Caroline while you're working at Fidelity Investments like she thinks that you know the card and that's better than not working hard but who is like it I get wanting to like do real life I think that doing real life gives you an opportunity to like work on behaviors in real time instead of all this like rehashing history that's garbage basically and
speaker 1: I'm just calling me for the three times since we've been on the phone yeah y let's see trying to figure out what I need to do here
speaker 2: what do you want to do I don't know
speaker 1: I live with your parents is not even
speaker 2: available I haven't asked them
speaker 1: like to ask them
speaker 2: well I mean obviously I was trying to ascertain like your level of ability to respect boundaries and understand that you need to be accountable to other people thought based on our conversation earlier today that you were using Ted as an excuse to not be accountable to other people except for a one-hour clinical setting once a week do you feel like I'm saying that accurately no
speaker 1: I think that they think it would be healthier for me to go to a different Church I've been pretty consistent on that actually yeah I think I can't be accountable to other people to say this processing of stuff that we're doing is not healthy the to be without a therapist can help us actually
speaker 2: the talking Circle that we
speaker 1: have
speaker 2: the talking in circles it's stupid you should stop right
speaker 1: yeah yeah so they would not like us to do that with our church or any other church
speaker 2: leaders may have I don't want to do this with our church or any other church I have no interest in going into Erin's office and talking about whether you manipulated the same size of the elders
speaker 1: great
speaker 2: and they have no interest in that either that's not productive but when people say to you dude you can't go around telling people that your wife tried to run you over in the parking lot that's awful like you need to be able to live real life with real people who you're really able to listen to when they tell you real stuff like that
speaker 1: you talking about our driveway
speaker 2: no I'm talking about it Church okay you know what I'm saying like I don't think anybody is looking to rehash history but in real time as events are happening I can't live life with you without eyeballs on it okay and I have to know that you're able to defer to the Judgment of people who you know have good judgement instead of deferring to your own wisdom which you've proved to be extremely lacking
speaker 1: what okay what I can refer to the other what I can defer to the wisdom of
speaker 2: others to our people who love us not supposed to go back to that church I mean do you feel like our elders have tried to lure you into fruitless arguments and are trying to rehash and process all of this in an unhealthy way that's antagonizing your yeah
speaker 1: depression yes I do feel like that actually really
speaker 2: cuz you were telling me that they were not engaging with you and that was what it was upsetting
speaker 1: quite a while but yeah I was talking we were talking with her and he was saying that I was lying and manipulating you and I'm actually wanting to give me examples to work for you said that I had absolute he had psychological issues that's not true
speaker 2: either neither visiting happened in my
speaker 1: presence I didn't say they happened in your presence but
speaker 2: you said while we were meeting with him yeah when we were having meetings
speaker 1: he did all the things so I can
speaker 2: and you still can't see those things he never would give me examples to see them it's not true
speaker 1: can't do this right now we going to
speaker 2: home yeah so you want to live with my parents is that your I mean given the situation that's your
speaker 1: choice if that's acceptable is everybody that would give it a
speaker 2: chance to interact sometimes
speaker 1: and hopefully work through this month I
speaker 2: don't know I mean my obviously my concern is the boundaries
speaker 1: I'm not worried about the boundaries what what's what's an issue with the boundary like I
speaker 2: really surprised to hear that you have a phone recording of me saying I wanted you to attempt to hug me in front of the
speaker 1: children that's not what they said you said what you said and what the recording says is that you asked me if I'd be willing to hug you I think I
speaker 2: don't know
speaker 1: obviously didn't mean that you wanted a hug so sorry but
speaker 2: right obviously I know how to try to get a hug from me if I want a hug from
speaker 1: you
speaker 2: not even that I don't want to hug you like there's nothing in the entire world that I want to do with you right now more than
speaker 1: in the entire world that you want to do with me right now
speaker 2: no more than I'm trying I know this is being recorded like I I want to touch you I obviously all the time I'm sorry I have to I have to stop and think about the actual dangers of the situation and the actual logical damage that's being done to my children
speaker 1: so
speaker 2: it's not always a question of what I want to do okay the question of what is wise and prudent you don't want
speaker 1: I'm not going to have you
speaker 2: I know but I'm saying it's not even a question of what I
speaker 1: want. I know saying when they offered to hug you and you said no I didn't do it cuz I'm
speaker 2: not going to I know but the children saw that the children saw that and what really needed to happen for the children's benefit in that moment once the deed has been once the damage had been done and they saw the offer made what really needed to happen for my children was I'm a hug you for the sake of the children to not be confused and damaged by why their mom who was supposed to be warm and loving and appreciative of their father who just spent time playing with them why their mom is so cold and ugly and withholding that's not good for them I needed to try to hug you to salvage that situation but I couldn't do it because all that does is perpetuate you feeling like you should do that again someday and that's not safe for the children either
speaker 1: I'm I'm sorry I forgot be right. Based on our conversation that you might want to
speaker 2: but you knew that I was capable of getting that if I needed it wage can you do this like mind-reading thing where it's
speaker 1: like I don't even know it's like you think that I don't legitimately think they when
speaker 2: you said that on the phone that you were hinting you might want to hug or but I didn't do you understand when we sit and we say hey I'm really disappointed that I don't get to Skype with you in Nathan because I was thinking that we were going to have an opportunity to set up some clear boundaries like you should hear that word boundaries and understand that that was something really official which is a very very different kind of communication than Oh I thought you were hinting at something under the surface and I acted on
speaker 1: that no honey you said if would you be willing to hug me I
speaker 2: don't remember saying that but if but again like if we were going to alter our boundaries I think that would have come with some more like really clear communication okay I got it wrong and I'm sorry and can you agree that when someone asks you to leave the house you don't live in or own you should leave 10:00 and not after you've gotten in another job or after you look to the man of the house or can you understand that boundary
speaker 1: yes
speaker 2: and can you understand when somebody doesn't want to be alone with you that you shouldn't like you should go out of your way to avoid being alone with that
speaker 1: person
speaker 2: and you understand you shouldn't push people yeah and you understand you shouldn't file false court documents about people and you understand if two people give you conflicting advice you should suggest getting together yeah to reach consensus yes I'll look into
speaker 1: it all right ma'am thank you yeah okay
speaker 2: sorry I have to go but I got to call my mom back if she feels
speaker 1: getting scared for me really
speaker 2: oh that file server password you gave me didn't work did you copy and paste it from somewhere
speaker 1: I thought from the password from scary I thought I copied it from what I see the password so if it doesn't work, might be in trouble
speaker 2: was it one password or two looks like two
speaker 1: passwords yeah I can't really remember why they were too but I would just try both of
speaker 2: them
speaker 1: really be able to get going with me
speaker 2: have you talk to Ted about your
speaker 1: guns just told me that he told you to keep them from me so
speaker 2: that's all he said so how many are there
speaker 1: I don't know I have to think about it not a month my mom's got one y she's worried about me killing myself
speaker 2: what good does it do to take one
speaker 1: gun you mean a lot to me and I'm in the
speaker 2: hospital I know but she only took one gun
speaker 1: huh that's all I had
speaker 2: Oh you mean on you okay fine with me but I got to go okay all right by you can if you want I love you bye